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Important BETA RELEASE DISCUSSION - DECEMBER 4TH (*ALL* beta discussion goes here. Other threads deleted)

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by Tiy, Jul 6, 2013.

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  1. Banandrew

    Banandrew Tentacle Wrangler

    After 30 hours in (it's important to note that I don't know a thing about planned features):
    • AI is bad. Second boss can be killed (pretty much like anything else in the game) by encapsulating yourself with blocks, he just stands still, you can press left mouse button and patiently wait for him to die. Same goes for regular monsters. I can remember getting silver armor, a lot of bandages and going for first boss — there was no challenge at all, it was so tedious waiting for his health to drop. The game needs challenge and overall better balance, right now it's either too easy, which makes it tedious, or too difficult, which makes it frustrating, especially since it's obligatory to watch the respawn animation. Also, NPC behaviour is chaotic and fast, why are they running so much? If a player is in the city, shouldn't they be walking calmly?
    • There should be a way of telling how dangerous a monster is; it's not fun to die, because there was no way to know that a planet with a diffiulty level 12 was too dangerous for your current equipment. A random number doesn't tell a player anything about the actual difficulty on a planet.
    • Mining should be faster during the first few tiers. Grinding is a huge part of such games, but people are not playing to grind, but to have fun, and waiting so long to crack obsidian with a golden pickaxe is too much to bare.
    • Planets are empty. Random generation makes them interesting, but there's one, sometimes more, sometimes none at all, special encounter on a planet — why have so many planets in the game, if there's no need to explore them?
  2. SuperMandrew

    SuperMandrew Cosmic Narwhal

    Press Escape to skip the respawn animation, fellow Andrew! :)
  3. Dungbeetle

    Dungbeetle Orbital Explorer

    You say you don't speculate, but that page doesn't support what you said (which was that I should wait for 1.0). I had already read that page, and I don't believe there is a clear answer to my question there. Here is what I found there:

    Stage 1: "we may make changes that require you to start from scratch" - this is pretty clear, wipes can happen​

    Stage 2: minimal risk of "losing your character or save" - this isn't very clear, but it seems to imply they don't plan to do wipes. Still, they might happen.​

    Stage 3: The page says nothing one way or the other about wipes. I could assume that they will no longer happen at this point, but I don't want to assume.​

    1.0 (release): The page says nothing about wipes stopping after release. I could assume that they will no longer happen at this point, but I don't want to assume.​

    So I'll ask a new question: At what point is it planned to have no more wipes? I know that wipes are necessary to balance the game, and I'm fine with that. I just want to know at what point the devs plan to stop doing them. I'm not looking for anyone to sign a contract in blood, but please, don't bother answering if you only have assumptions or speculation to offer.
  4. Tyrindor

    Tyrindor Space Kumquat

    Your armor level in your character sheet is your level. If it says 12 that means you shouldn't exceed a level 12 planet, and even then at night or deep down those mobs will hurt big time because they are higher than 12. All this is going to change tomorrow though.

    Mining speed was increased just 2 days ago. Mining at the start should be somewhat slow to give a sense of progression.

    AI is bad and Planets are empty because this is Stage 1 beta. Read the "how beta is going to work" post.

    Tiy said that he plans on adding 1/2 a tier of content every week. There is 10 tiers, and most of the first 3 are finished. Your looking at about 14 weeks until the game is almost content complete, and roughly about the same time Stage 2 will begin i'm betting. The 2nd to last character wipe will likely be when Stage 2 launches, unless a major bug is found. The last character wipe will probably be when Stage 3 ends.

    You have to understand there is no "wiping" going on though. Either your character still loads in the game or it doesn't. If the game can no longer read the old data, you must start anew or stay on an old version of the game. After release, major updates may render old characters unusable on the new version but you can always stay on an old version of the game by choice. Think Minecraft updates, most people tend to play on older versions for quite sometime because worlds/mods tend to not be upgradeable.

    You can bet there will be prevention against this come launch though, and my guess is you will still be able to carry your character over after all major updates, it's just the galaxy might not load anymore and you may need to regenerate it, losing your worlds. Again, only if you choose to update the game.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  5. Sam_3d

    Sam_3d Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Also how to set up different spawn point? I changed coordinates in config, but the still spawn on old planet (that is like post apocaliptic mess)
  6. Severyx

    Severyx Void-Bound Voyager

    Alright, so after several hours of gameplay, I've found myself spending absurd amounts of time on this game.

    There are a few things I'd like to see changed, though (and for the record, I haven't checked the 'to be done' list, so please excuse me if some of these are already being worked on):
    • Ability to set a new groundside teleport point (this is a big deal if I want to move away from the initial drop point to create my stuff)
    • A craftable item you can set down somewhere above ground that essentially acts as a transmitter so you can find planets you've established bases on after leaving them to explore, or just to mark places you'd like to come back to. It'd be awesome if we had the ability to change the text displayed on the nav screen (rather change the text the transmitter sends out) so you can 'name' your bases
      • I accidentally clicked "SET HOME" instead of "GO HOME" after checking a far away coordinate a friend sent me, and I lost the planet where the majority of my work and established stuff had been. I can't find it! This is a rather crappy way to have to pick up and start again.
    • Ability to customize key bindings! (also good for quick checking of what keys do what - I had not initially known the controls would be explained in a note)
    • Show me what my death penalty is! Simply silently subtracting pixels both makes the uninformed assume there's no penalty and hardly makes me wince when I'm resurrected. Seeing the deduction is great motivation NOT to die more.
    • There are a LOT of things unexplained in the game. I thought I could 'alter' my ship, but I can't do anything with it. I don't know what the green bar is for (if it's for tech, why am I seeing it in early game when I don't have any?), and such
    • Storms that actually feel like storms! Where's the snow-piling blizzards? Lightning strikes? Crazy furious-winded maelstroms? Dust storms? ....Destructive meteor showers? These could have other effects as well, like temporary flooding for heavy rain, weak-material structures getting picked apart in high-winds... Of course, some in-game warning system (automated message from the ship in orbit?) would help prep for these. I want reasons to feel safe from the elements in my fortresses!
    I'm sure there's more I'll think of later, but I think this is a good start. The game is plenty fun, and I can't wait to see more content!
    Gotcha! likes this.
  7. DeltaPangaea

    DeltaPangaea Void-Bound Voyager

    It occurs to me at this point, I sort of feel like energy should be a more limited resource. Like, things consume it less, but it also regenerates much slower.

    As is, you stop doing anything for like, two seconds and you have enough energy to just carry on as you were.

    Maybe this could be one of the things in the inevitable 'hardcore' mode. Energy is more or a resource, permadeath, quitting saves where you are instead of freewarping you back to your ship...

    Also also, when we get health-improving items, could we also have them expand the size of the health bar? And ditto for energy? Would give a fuzzy feeling when you get some more health and it visibly jumps up as opposed to only seeing a number. (And speaking of numbers, maybe a way to see your current health numerically?)
  8. Gels

    Gels Void-Bound Voyager

    Just a note on the ship teleporting bug, hold down S and then push E to teleport. It makes sure you hit the surface and not get stuck on the ship. I have been waiting three days for the new update, have not played as I know it is going to be changed and there is going to be a wipe out. Fingers crossed I can finally play today. Eagerly awaiting the new patch like a little puppy waiting for a walk!
    Keep up the great work devs, this game is just too awesome for words to express!
  9. Gotcha!

    Gotcha! Pangalactic Porcupine

    @Dungbeetle: The answer seems crystal clear to me. Even developers cannot foresee the future. Your characters will be safe from version 1.0 and on.
    And you won't get a different answer while this game is in heavy beta. :up:

    - I really support stronger pickaxes. Even a gold one seems ridiculously weak. It'd be nice if it went through obsidian in half the time than it does now.
  10. zairs

    zairs Aquatic Astronaut

    I think the gold one is fine how it is (gold is "soft" irl afterall lol), but i do think the tiers after gold do need to be vamped up, specifically mining blaststone / cobblestone / etc.
  11. WMSkyfall

    WMSkyfall Master Chief

    So . . . side question. Tons of people are posting suggestions / bug reports / questions in this thread. Is this the appropriate thread to be making feature requests? Or should we all be posting in the Suggestions forum (instead of / in addition to) in this thread?
  12. Ianuarius

    Ianuarius Orbital Explorer

    (NSFW cos of the language)

    I just played 5 hours of the beta and jome things were a bit problematic.

    * In character creation you don't really know at all what the different races are. They aren't described in any way and just basically look different from eachother.
    * Inside the game I can barely see the hotkeys for anything and can't remap them (huge problem).
    * The soundtrack is AMAZING! :D Just a sidenote.
    * The inventory placement resets with chest etc. which is annoying.
    * "I" key for inventory is REALLY unconvenient (make the keys remappable, please!)
    * You can jump the spaceship with empty tank but it just runs to the same planet.

    I'll post more later. Fantastic game, so far, tho! :) Really enjoyed it.
  13. Banandrew

    Banandrew Tentacle Wrangler

    Thank you, I think I tried it before and it didn't work. Will try again!

    I see, thanks! Glad they're changing it. I understand that it's beta, but we can't get into developers' heads and possibly know that UI is going to be better and clearer. I read that post several times, it doesn't give you a sense of what features are going to be in the game or what's going to be changed.

    As for mining speed, I know they incresed it, but it seems not enough, I mentioned an example with gold pickaxe and obsidian for a reason. I understand the concept of progression, and right now the difference between pickaxes is alright; the starting position of Manipulator and Stone Pickaxe is not. People don't have all day to just concentrate their time on mining, they need to do a little bit of everything, and have fun doing it all.
    Gotcha! likes this.
  14. Ianuarius

    Ianuarius Orbital Explorer

    Just played another 2 hours (NSFW cos the language)

    More things I noticed:
    * You rarely get any wheat no matter how much you've got planted. That's kinda lame. I'd rather have the growing time be longer than just do work completely in vain.
    * The soundtrack switches for 5 seconds cos I oneshotted an enemy with my bow. It really ruins the atmosphere. The music should see if the battle lasts more than just one hit until it changes.
    * The chests mostly have useless crap that the pots in Terraria had. Really disapointing.
    * The soundtrack is still awesome and I really miss it when I spend two hours underground. Mining. Cos the mining is really SLOW!
    * Seriously the mining takes waaaaaaay too long. Speed it up. Like 2x faster (not even kidding). It's not challenging. It's not fun. It's just artificially making the game longer.
    * All of the weapons I have found in the gameworld have been crap. Why even bother with exploration when you can craft all of the best weapons? Is that how the game is supposed to be?
    * Speaking of weapons I can either craft a variety of weapons that vary slightly on speed but damage-wise no big difference. Then there's the hammer that oneshots everything but is really slow. I can understand having a lot of weapons because it brings depth to the game. It would be fun, tho, if you could somehow make most of them appeaeling to the player because even I was just skipping them before I had way more iron that I needed and I just crafted everything cos I had nothing else to do.
    * I LOVE how the water works and the pressure physics! :)
    * Drop key (Q) next to your movement keys and your most important item (1)? Seriously? Because accidentally dropping your weapons etc. sounded like a good idea? Why would anyone do that? I've seen that in several game and that's the WORST idea you could have. Why not make something like P the drop key and Q the inventory? Or better yet... why not have the players remap the keys however they please like in any properly made game?!
    * The bow works REALLY well and I love using it.
    * (17:05 of the video) Instadeath? Good idea? It wasn't challenging. I couldn't know that it was gonna happen. If I was playing hardcore that just ended the game for me. The only solution for a player: never touch the pods. Is that what you were going for? Having interactable elements in the game that you don't want players to interact with? With normal character you just wasted 10 minutes of my time and that's it. Like I said, it wasn't my fault in any ways and just like a felt cheap shot from the game's part. Just pointless.
    * Speaking of the pods, the jump boost sound effect is just stupid! :D That needs to be repaired.
    * The orange-greenish gold looks weird! Maybe it's realistic and I'm just stupid. Idk! :D
    * E opens doors, closes inventory, closes chests, and what else? Operating doors is a pain in the ass with that. I want to keep my inventory open.
    * Moving away from chests closes the chest-inventory screen and if I was holding an item it just disappears from my hand. That's a PAIN in the ass.
    * Trying to close crafing screen with E doesn't do anything because of the search bar. Having it autofocused can be convenient if you use it all the time but otherwise just another pain in the ass. Maybe make a button next to it that says "auto focus" or something? I never use the search. It just slows down my flow ever time I try to craft something or just take a look at the craft menu.
    * You can't craft by typing the number and hitting ENTER. Instead it starts to talk? Again, a compromise, but I'd rather take a hit of enter instead of going with the mouse again. Clicking buttons with your mouse is really tedious.
    * (38:45 in the video) You get to the bottom of the map. What to do? Climb back up? Don't you DARE! It would be boring beyond belief. You want your game to be boring beyond belief? BBB? :D
    * You reach a point in the game where you just don't have any idea what to do. So... read the WIKI? Why would I need to do that? That's idiotic. I can appreciate having secrets in the game and super awesome items that are hidden but just basically advancing in the game...? Why is that hidden? Why is that a secret? You want 100% of your players to be frustrated and not know what to do? Maybe some of the seriously hardcore players are gonna keep trying and eventually figure it out but the rest of them?
    * Most of the game is just slowly mining (and I do mean SLOWLY) and not encountering anything at all. The few rare chest you find have nothing of value in them. You don't need torches, you don't really need stimpacks, you don't need the crappier than shit weapons, pixels? ok but you can get them everywhere. Enemies don't drop anything useful except leather. There's really REALLY little gold and the mining is sooooooo damn slow finding enough to make anything at all is just tedious as shit. I've played for 7 hours and haven't found enough to make anything useful. Also I got seriously tired of the mining and don't wanna do it anymore. There's no reward to it. It's just boring and WAAAY too slow and all you ever get is cobblestone and gravel... and maybe like copper and iron that you don't need. There's NO PAYOFF!
    * I got so bored with the mining that I stop, climbed a little bit up, found an enemy and had it SLOWLY kill me. That was stupid but climbing back up would be even more so. I hope you don't make players lose any of their items cos that would be horrible. An hour of pointless mining and then an hour of pointless climbing back up? I don't want to play that game.
    * The mining takes soooooo long and I just miss the awesome soundtrack. I agree that you should only hear it in the overworld but I spend so much time in the underworld that I never get to hear the sweeeeeeeet music. Solution? Make the mining faster and try to have the game take place more on the top side! :)
    * (1:35:00 in the video) OK, so the boss fight. Made me think of Torchlight end boss but that's giving Torchlight too much credit. That was just tedious and boring as hell! You can't really damage that ship. You need more player? FUCK THAT! Sorry about the language, but are you seriously trying to force me to play the game with others? I don't want to do that. That's bullshit. Terraria got it right. I could play everything solo. That boss is boring and has too much HP. A ton of HP isn't challenging, it's just boring! You're not testing my skills, you're just being a pain in the ass. You're like that one annoying guy who you can't get to shut the hell up and close the phone. Make the boss challenging! Not tedious. Take the health down to maybe 25% but make the player really utilize their ranged skills! That's game design! It's your job to make the game engaging. Just chiseling down a MASSIVE health bar isn't engaging or fun. It's the lowest form of making bosses seem tough. It's stupid. It's boring. It's tedious. Is that what you want your game to be?
    * The boss seriously took 10 minutes? It should've taken TWO!
    * Then you can make a starmap upgrade. What do you do with it? Who knows. The game certainly doesn't tell you. Just yells at the player "Go read a WIKI!" Browsing websites SHOULD be part of a fun game, eh? No.

    Ok, so the stuff at the end really made me frustrated. The game has potential but some of this stuff needs SERIOUS fixing. And that's why it's in beta! :)

    You can do it! Go get em!
  15. Lucif3rJr

    Lucif3rJr Void-Bound Voyager

    Yea good idea, perhaps since it would be easily exploitable make it one use only with a decent creation cost, otherwise people will lay them down wherever and essentially lose nothing on death. Either that or make the spawn item require certain conditions, inside, lighting, big enough area etc.
  16. BloodyRain2k

    BloodyRain2k Pangalactic Porcupine

    It should follow the same rules as warping down, so if you build your house good you can warp into it but that's not that easy to accomplish.
    Aside that should it now be expensive as it's a rather basic feature imo. Actually should you be able to warp down anywhere on the surface where you've already been.

    Edit: there are still a few things being weird about combat:
    Guards not giving a damn about people in cities crying for help cause monsters attack them (got 10 dead now in an Apex city and the guards didn't give a damn)
    People accusing YOU for having killed the people that got killed by monsters...
    Combat music starting to play when monsters take damage from poisonous water or lava

    And citizens love going out of the city and not finding back into it or die right away cause they run into monsters.

    Aside that do the armors until now (got copper armor, waiting to get leather armor again) feel not that much better.
    Weapons drastically increase your power against monsters (iron 2h sword ftw), but armor doesn't seem to do much (atleast until the point where I'm currently) against their attacks though. I still get often over 15 damage per hit, sometimes even 37 from special attacks.

    Also removing sand below a palm tree on desert planets doesn't make it drop wood, it just vanishes.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  17. Bazzyboss

    Bazzyboss Void-Bound Voyager

    Just about the Racial abilities, it seems a bit annoying, as everyone would choose the race with best abilities. And if you said Hylotl should breath underwater? Then Glitch should not need to eat and breath.
  18. JewlgRan

    JewlgRan Void-Bound Voyager

    Then make sure that the racials are equally good or give lesser versions of the armor bonuses to all races so that everyone can do everything but not equally good. Or let people take the one that they like the most, it will still end up with most people using the best racial armor.

    As it is now I think that having racial on armors is a bit dull since it will get available for all races, which kinda eliminates the purpose of having racial skills. Would it not be more interesting if you had to choose one race and get its weaknesses and strengths instead of just creating a character that is just like every other character and strives for the same gear.
    Think about it, if the different races play differently they will specialize in different thing. For example, apex that run fast and jumps high will be perfect for melee whilst avians will glide over its enemies and bombard them with ranged weaponry. This will also give you more of a reason to have multiple characters and even more of a new experience while you play the game again.

    Then you can take WoW for example. First they had an awesome difference between the two faction, the had different classes and different racial abilities. This led to more diverse strategies and thought behind the gameplay. But now they seem to make everything more and more alike which makes the game a lot less interesting. So I would really like to see that racial abilities are different from race to race, or at least if they all need the ability to glide with the right piece of armor. At least let the avians be better at it!
  19. Gotcha!

    Gotcha! Pangalactic Porcupine

    Notes and feedback about this version, v. Irritated Koala 2?

    - The second tier of weapons, the damage is outrageous compared to the first one. Broadsword: 60-ish, Cool Broadsword: 5000+! Is this intended?

    - Those buff/debuff pods, I forgot if I already posted about them. Right now they can instant kill you. Not fun. (In my opinion they're no fun anyway. I hate life or death gambles.)

    - Quick stack. It's starting to become a nuisance to put stuff into containers. Please make buttons to automatically stack the same items.

    - Please remove the stack splitting. I always stack my bars and other materials and like to take the amount I need for an item. Right now this is only possible by continuously splitting the item stacks until I have what I want. Perhaps SHIFT can function as a key to split stuff for those who want it.

    - Please copy Terraria's chest system so you can't accidentally mine away a chest and lose all its items due to a full inventory.

    - I like the ore increase, but even I will admit that it's too much. If you choose the exact middle road then I think it'd be perfect. If the amount will be lower than the middle road, please increase pickaxe speed to lower the boringness of mining.

    - Some sort of ore or metal detector would be nice. With the current amount of ore it isn't necessary, but when ore quantities are lowered again it'd be nice to have some indicator to let you know if you're wasting time by digging in a particular direction.

    - It'd be nice if the game would remember where you dragged the inventory screen to. It's very annoying to drag it away all the time.

    - The ship warp scene seems the same length, whether you're warping to the planet next door or to the other side of the galaxy. If jumping to a neighbour planet the warp scene should be shortened, or maybe replaced with a regular impulse engine flight scene.

    Nice work on the UFO boss. Yes, it's too easy, I know, but those little ufo's are cute and I love how it tears apart the landscape instead of getting stuck. :)
    jds and POCKoCLOCK like this.
  20. Gotcha!

    Gotcha! Pangalactic Porcupine

    - Silver, Platinum and Titanium look VERY similar. I can't tell them apart.
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