Let's answer the question of when to get the 24 slot backpack

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by One More Day, Feb 18, 2020.

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When do you get the backpack?

  1. Day 4

  2. I hate money

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  1. One More Day

    One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

    Honestly, I'm not actually sure how this is even a debate when the answer is so obvious as to seem almost axiomatic.

    The correct answer, and the only answer that makes sense, is we get it as soon as we can afford to pay for it, and at 2k it's an absolute bargain. If you think something else, there's no point me agreeing with you, because then we'd both be wrong. The only real debate should be about the timing of the 10k upgrade to 36 slots.

    Even when you're only walking around doing things on the farm you could quickly find yourself having to go back to your chest to drop stuff off, and that's just wasted time. If you have been mining, or fishing, and have over a dozen items you want to use or sell, you have to make two journeys, and particularly in the early part of the game, lost time has a huge cost in lost opportunity.

    Starting with no resources, and not much money, everything we come across is either useful, or valuable, or both, and we should look to keep hold of it. Whether it's fishing, foraging, farming or mining, at any given point in time we're going somewhere, to do something, which means we'll need at least one tool, and possibly more than one, particularly if it's very early and we need to negotiate a path through debris. Many people also like to carry a hoe with them, to dig worm spots, which isn't a bad strategy either. So assuming we at least leave our watering can on the farm, sometimes as many as a third of our 12 slots will be occupied by tools, leaving as little as 8 slots for everything else. And when each forageable could be in 3 different qualities, that could fill up very fast.

    Going round Cindersap? Well, in addition to anything that could come from an artifact spot, you could find fiber, mixed seeds, stone, coal, geode, wood, sap, three different tree seeds and three different qualities of each of spring onion, horseradish and daffodil.

    Going fishing? Depending on where you go, before you even start with the list of potential fish, you could walk past any forage, contents of trash cans, artifact spots again, beach items, and we still need to have room to catch fish.

    Going mining on day 5? You need space for a weapon, some food, a pick, stone, coal, ore, geodes, omni geodes, quartz, earth crystal, topaz, amethyst, cherry bombs, fiber, crabs, cave carrots, wood, hardwood, several kinds of monster loot, monster drops such as dwarf scrolls, weapons you find to sell to Marlon

    Wherever you go, 12 slots is simply not enough, and you're burning money by not upgrading. This is particularly true with regard to stuff you had to abandon in the mines, because that cannot ever be recovered.


    Very quickly, even 24 slots doesn't seem enough, but at 10k, the second upgrade has to be balanced with other purchases, so I'd be prepared to debate that, and consider holding off as late as mid summer, although I personally prefer early summer
     
    • Shepherd_0

      Shepherd_0 Space Spelunker

      I always get the 24-slot backpack on day 4. I'm curious as to when you would get it without doing any fishing though.

      I get the 36 slot one around the time of my first harvest in summer, especially if I'm planning to go to the skull cavern.
       
      • Honeywell

        Honeywell Subatomic Cosmonaut

        Personally, day 6 when I go to town. I can afford it on day 5 but it's not worth my time to go get it--I just bring a mine chest and empty my bag every 5 floors. But I consider the pack a luxury not a necessity--place a couple of chests in key places and plan accordingly. It can be done you don't have to trash items and lose money.
         
        • UnexpectedParole

          UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

          I get my backpack Spring 5, because I don't hit fishing 5 until Spring 4 and I can't sell fish for the bonus until that morning.
          I try for the 36 slot after the first summer harvest.
           
          • WilliamZ

            WilliamZ Phantasmal Quasar

            I get as soon I can, even day 3 if I fish a treasure, I tried the mines using a chest beside the elevator and I didn't like it because I have to give up on things that I wished to take with me.
             
            • One More Day

              One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

              That's actually something I'm wrestling with in my non-fishing guide, and I haven't quite settled it yet. Obviously with fishing, the upgrade is easily affordable, but without it, 2k is actually a fairly large amount of money, especially if you don't get good forage. I think it does have to be a case of actually waiting to see when you can afford it, because it might be different each run. I'm resigned to occasionally mining without it on day 5, which feels wrong.

              You can't get it on day 3, Pierre's door is locked. As for the mines, I use a chest by the elevator and get the backpack as well
               
              • WilliamZ

                WilliamZ Phantasmal Quasar

                Silly me, but I didn't purchased in day 2 neither because I remember that I shipped that treasure chest, it was a once in a lifetime thing.
                 
                • Grimgaw

                  Grimgaw Yeah, You!

                  I get mine on day 5. Chop few oaks, go to town at 8, walk to Clint to pick up my copper pick, walk by Pierre's and on to mines.

                  Buying on 4th would mean a trip to Willy beforehand to sell fish at +25% and that's WAY too much time taken from lake fishing.
                   
                  • ThorfinnS

                    ThorfinnS Astral Cartographer

                    Wow. I'd guess I don't have enough cash in non-fish to buy that much copper and coal at least 95% of the time. Is the day 3 pick upgrade typical? Without a bunch of restarts, I mean?
                     
                    • UnexpectedParole

                      UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                      that is a good question.

                      I certainly would not know how. -Baring using the 4 corners map or mining map to get lots of copper early? Or getting copper ores early? Or maybe not using the 25% bonus from fishing level 5?

                      And I think I would sooner day 3 upgrade the axe than the pick if I could?

                      For the first levels of the mines it is one swing per rock anyway. The only swings it would save are on the few grey rocks and the copper ores themselves. I very much like upgrading my pick to copper and steel over salmonberry season. Steel pick to get from like 45 to 80+ for gold is very nice.
                       
                      • ThorfinnS

                        ThorfinnS Astral Cartographer

                        Oh, yeah. Wasn't thinking about that. Still need quite a little luck, though. There's only a handful of copper nodes at start, and then it's up to the RNG for the rest you need.

                        Maybe. My problem would be that I don't know until early Wednesday afternoon that it's going to be possible. By then it's too late to run back to the farm for the right tool, get to Willy's, and still get to Clint's by 4. Even so, I'm going to need the axe on Thursday anyway. Or I could chop down 4 mountain pines for the mining chest... Hmmm.

                        [EDIT]
                        Seems kinda weird I didn't realize this earlier, but it's not all that hard to pull off a day 3 upgrade. Buy a copper Monday or Tuesday if you didn't find one as a wiggly worm, and spend the rest of Tuesday fishing south of Jodi's, leaving all your fish in the chest there so you can pick them up as you run past on Wednesday. If you end up in the ballpark of 2k, you are in pretty good shape. Wednesday, do your standard catfishing. (Fishing closer to Leah's saves quite a bit of time, and doesn't seem to make a huge difference in the fish I caught. 1:30, urm, one-thirty pm, is your deadline at the north end of Arrowhead Island, but you can leave Leah's as late as 2:20 and still get to Willy's then Clint's in time.) Last run I only got to 6k at Willy's, which would be enough, but a lucky treasure chest or finding 5 coal while breaking rocks and you don't have to cut things that close.

                        Things are different at Clint's though. IIRC, it used to be that you could do the upgrade after Clint left. Now in 1.4, at 5pm, he goes to his forge until 7pm, and you can do the upgrade until he leaves. But copper is only a half hour. Get there at 4 and you still have time. Not a lot to spare, but possible.
                        [/EDIT]
                         
                          Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
                        • Elenna101

                          Elenna101 Subatomic Cosmonaut

                          IIRC you can get gold quality fish sometimes at level 3 at the north end of Arrowhead Island, which seems to be the big plus for that location. But if you're at level 4 at the start of day 3 (which shouldn't be too hard with trout soup), it doesn't really matter.
                           
                          • UnexpectedParole

                            UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                            Where is arrowhead island? And why is fishing near leah's better than near jodi's?
                             
                            • ThorfinnS

                              ThorfinnS Astral Cartographer

                              Arrowhead Island is the one with pine trees(4?) between the spring onions and the hat seller.

                              I don't know whether it's true or not, but I've always thought you can estimate the quality of fish by counting the number of water tiles within 5 tiles of your bobber. Why 5? Don't know. Maybe it's just something someone suggested way back when. But it's pretty close to what I'm finding. At L4 fishing, with the +1 distance, there's a spot near Leah's that is 1 tile better than the best spot near Jodi's.
                               
                              • Elenna101

                                Elenna101 Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                From what I understand (and I don't look at the code so this could be inaccurate), the quality of the fish you can get (and the chance of catching each fish) is based on water depth. Water depth is hard-coded somewhere, I think, but it can be estimated by looking at the minimum number of tiles between your bobber and the shore. IIRC water depth is kinda weird on the very northernmost side of Arrowhead Island, in a way that lets you get gold quality fish at level 3 fishing. IDK if there's any difference in water depth between the area near Leah's and the area near Jodi's.
                                 
                                • KThomas14

                                  KThomas14 Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                  The Cindersap River has Chub instead of Smallmouth Bass, otherwise they have the same fish. Chub give slightly more experience, but I think they are significantly harder to catch perfectly.
                                   
                                  • Grimgaw

                                    Grimgaw Yeah, You!

                                    That's how I do it.
                                    Buy/find single copper day 1. Level 2 fishing by noon day 2 and level 4 by the end of that day. Fish before 9am on Wed, buy copper, smelt while fishing, sell all fish by 3:30 (save 2k spend rest on bait). Go upgrade pick.
                                    True, but I get to level 40 on day 5. Plus I aim for gold upgrade by 13-14th so I can start making mad money of Skull Caves asap.

                                    Here's good thread explaining water depth, fishing levels and quality.
                                     
                                    • ThorfinnS

                                      ThorfinnS Astral Cartographer

                                      I'm not following. Are you saying that between Tuesday afternoon and Willy's opening on Wednesday, you are fishing up 4k? (3300 for copper, 750 for coal.) Then you go to Clint's, then fishing somewhere, then Willy's, then back to Clint's by 4? The walk is 40 minutes each way, so you manage it in 80 minutes less time?

                                      I'm already right down to the wire. I don't see what I could improve on that would let me blow 80 minutes. I'm just not losing enough fish to make an hour's difference. Is there something I'm missing about getting the fish to bite faster or something?
                                       
                                      • UnexpectedParole

                                        UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                        So, I'm just trying to do some calculations here. The rocks start costing 2 hits at what, level 30?
                                        So you're at 70ish ore and 10 levels of rocks costing 2 hits each?
                                        As you are pushing for skull caverns I can see where the upgraded pick makes sense. I tend to go towards foraging and the stables, which makes the axe a higher priority for me. And, am not as quick to sprinklers, so the watering can has value too. I don't recall the last time I upgraded my pick to gold. I don't play SDV to mine run.



                                        It sounds like it. No mention of fiberglass rod or not. Though he was talking about buying bait so either preparing for the rod, or you also need to add 1800 to that amount earned.
                                        I'm not that good at fishing, I know that. I get level 3 on Wednesday, level 4 on Wednesday or Thursday and level 5 on Thursday.
                                         
                                          Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
                                        • Grimgaw

                                          Grimgaw Yeah, You!

                                          It takes 20 in game minutes to water 15 plants, so I'm not sure why you're starting to fish Tuesday afternoon. I'm at the pier at 7am.
                                          I have 5 coal from day 1 from farm stones (level 1 mining for cherry bombs for 5th).
                                          I'm usually level 1 fishing when Will opens his shop, level 2 around noon. That's when I sell everything, buy fiberglass rod, bait and spend rest of the day at the lake (or somewhere along the way if there are bubbles). End the day very close to level 5 fishing.
                                          Wednesday fish south of Jodi, go to Willy at 8:40, sell Tuesday fish + this mornings catches, go to Clint, buy ore, craft furnace, smelt while fishing, go to Willy again at 3pm, sell fish, got to Clint pay for upgrade, spend rest of the day fishing.
                                           

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