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Make it open source

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by letters90, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. letters90

    letters90 Void-Bound Voyager

    So as it seems this game has exactly one developer.
    People pay money for this game and what they get is basically nothing at the moment. While I understand that one developer is an argument for not getting any updates it is not an argument for the fact that people still pay for a product here. So from my point of view it is basically. Hire a developer who is actually working on this or make it open source so people can atleast fix it for themselves.
      brianhj likes this.
    • Linio

      Linio Big Damn Hero

      I've gotta say, i'm kind of agree with this.
      Worst is you decided to put the game on a new version Game Develop or whatever you used, and wrecked the game for a bunch of us.
      So yeah, if you don't feel like doing something about that, at least let us try to fix it for ourselves.
        brianhj likes this.
      • mageblood

        mageblood Big Damn Hero

        While I, and many others, understand how you feel about the lack of updates/fixes, nothing can be done and RoR most likely won't be made open source. I will agree that the port from Game Maker 8 to Game Maker Studio has broken things, but it has made it available to more than just Windows, allowing more people to enjoy the game (despite the errors, assuming they are lucky to not get constant crashes on start-up) and tell others. Updates since the port have been made to attempt fixing these errors, but not all can be fixed at once, and some may not be possible fix at all. The developers (yes, developers, that means more than 1, there are 2 at least (I think 3, the 3rd making the music) working on the game) are currently in college. As far as I know, we (the community) don't get much/any information on their overall progress in college or how they are doing. We don't know if they are sick or in the hospital, we don't know if they have family issues such as the death of a loved one, we don't know how much time they actually have to work on the games because of college or other things (including the previously stated). What we do know is what they post on their blog/twitter, linked somewhere on the main page and throughout threads on this sub-section of the overall forum. They have started a new game (or rather, have been working on this game since during RoR's early stages) because RoR is nearing its completion based on its Kickstarter page, also linked somewhere on the main page and forum. If you can't find the Kickstarter page, I can tell you that the game, upon V 1.0's release, was completed and they could have quit working on it. HOWEVER, because they had reached more than they originally needed (their stretch goals), they decided to add 'Game Mutators' to it, the Artifacts you can currently find and collect. The arena mode was mentioned first, but it proved to be more work than they expected and, in the end, they decided to drop that for additional content, the content being 2 new characters (the Loader and the Chef) and a handful of new items. These are the only 2 stretch goals clearly stated, both have been reached and added to the game in one way or another. One could say the game is complete now, the last thing would be to make fixes slowly as they continue onto new things. Their 3rd and last stretch goal was more vague, stating that they would pack whatever content they could into the game... This could be interpreted and taken in various ways, including believing they would work on this game for the rest of their lives and update the game quite often, both are not possible for the impossibility of such a request and their current situation respectively. They DO plan to continue working on the game and fixing as many issues as they can for a while, however it will be slower for multiple reasons (that have been stated).

        Let me go back to the original topic, about this being open source. If they release it to the public for them to 'fix' as they see fit, the developers would have to forfeit any further profits as anyone could push an update as easily as the developers themselves could, and it would also allow people to get the game free in one way or another. Being open source would allow anyone to walk by, snatch it up, 'fix' it or change it, and re-release it in their own name and steal profits in other ways. Suddenly changing it to open source would cheat those that have already paid for the game out of their money (some would feel this way and the developers may see it this way and might feel bad about it if they do this). I don't see this ever becoming open source, and if it does, it won't be for quite a while. The best they could probably do is get another person to work on the game with them, but profits would have to be shared with any new person. And who knows if the developers still have that much money left? They have college, and last I checked... College ain't cheap.
        • Linio

          Linio Big Damn Hero

          Very touching, but they seem perfectly healthy to me : http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=45642.0

          I understand that putting the game opensource would not be very realistic. Still the devs should understand that they are working on a project, and it's not a college project, it's a professional project (or at least, it should be). As you can see from the previous link, this is not a question of time or money, it's just the pure fact that they moved on without giving us any information, which is pretty irresponsbile, or even worse, judging by the fact that we actually PAID for the game...
          • mageblood

            mageblood Big Damn Hero

            Yes, they are working on another game, but for all we know, maybe only ONE is working on (a majority of) it and the other is sick. But sickness doesn't have to apply to them directly, they could have family that is sick and they are only putting a little work into their other game(s). They could be going through a lot of stress, further hindering any progress in their development yet still posting tiny updates here and there on their blog/twitter. Also, I believe I said they had been working on that throughout the development of Risk of Rain, more so recently. The fact is that they DID tell us, just not here and not in an easily/quickly accessible area (for some). Last, like I previously stated and explained, Risk of Rain can be considered complete, save for the bugs and errors it has that WILL be mostly fixed at some point. Demanding that they keep working on it tirelessly and forget about their other work and college is pretty irresponsible, not to mention inconsiderate, of a fan of the game.

            So let me reiterate. Although we paid for Risk of Rain and additional features, we have gotten exactly that from the developers and this is essentially complete. With RoR at such a point, development for it has slowed no matter how or why. Adding more content will be much more difficult for them from here on, leaving only bug fixes. Since they can't do too much more for RoR, they need to move on to other projects to continue making a profit and to stay off the streets under a bridge with an incomplete education (which, might I add, does not even guarantee them a job but does guarantee a debt that will need to be paid off; experience and proof of work will get them better chances at a job, at least in the gaming industry since that is what they are working on). It would do the developers a great favor to calm down and simply wait. Making demands of them does NOT motivate (I know this as it is how I feel when someone demands something of me). Insulting them (as I have seen a few do on this forum) also does not motivate, rather it pushes them further away. So we should all just take a step back and let the developers do as they see fit instead of harassing them about their 'fail' of a game port that needs to be 'fixed'. I agree I'm not happy with it, but I am taking a break from it and not demanding fixes immediately, though I do also have older versions prior to the port that I can play at any time. Why not take a little break from RoR since these issues seem to be annoying/angering you and play some other game(s)? Maybe get into StarMade and recreate RoR related things in it like I (and a couple others) have? Maybe Terraria or Minecraft would be more your style? Or, if creative games aren't your thing, maybe some World of Warcraft or League of Legends, whatever your preferences may be. Anything to give the developers a little breathing room to reduce their stress. Less stress can make one more productive.
            • Linio

              Linio Big Damn Hero

              Dude, seriously, i don't know what you're on, but i want some.
              There is only one dev on this game, so basically if he's working on something else, the "team" is working on something else.
              And I paid for a game with multiplayer, the only reason i bought it, and yeah : this is broken for me, so technically i paid for something, and it got changed for something else, and this something was not working as planned.
              I'm not insulting anyone here, and i'm in a position to actually make demands, whether you want it or not and whether they imagined it or not. I understand excuses and such, but leaving a game in an unstable state to work on something else is unacceptable, and honestly, i don't see any angle from where you can defend that.
              Speaking about other game is totally irrelevant here, i'm sorry to say. Saying : yeah you paid for a product, it's not working, but pay for another one is something you would never do in another field (replace game by dishwasher or even professionnal software, and you'll see this argument does not stand).

              And I think we're past motivation here. I've been one of the greatest supporter of the game, and was very motivating at some point, several months later, i'm thinking i'm taken (and actually WE are) for a fool by the team.
              • mageblood

                mageblood Big Damn Hero

                You claim to be one of the greatest supporters of the game, yet here you are, complaining and making demands. If you really WERE a supporter, you would understand and give them as much time as necessary (and I don't mean in your eyes, as you clearly think they should drop everything to get back to RoR). If you were, you would relax and trust that the devs will update this and fix every major issue.

                About there being 'one' person on the 'team', let me provide you with some proof that there are more. Do note that, although I have proven more people are capable of working on the game, everything I have said previously needs to be taken into consideration.

                Never did I say that the devs intended or implied they want us to forget about RoR and buy their new game just because that is what they are working on, I said that, since they have reached their goals for RoR their FOCUS has SHIFTED. Since you can't comprehend that, it means they are working more on the other game than RoR so that they can get that out for others to enjoy, not just the RoR fandom alone. RoR is still being worked on and will be updated eventually (I'm sure tomorrow wouldn't even be soon enough for you with how you have been ranting (not just this thread either) ). There are more people outside the RoR forum that are anticipating their next game, so let them work on it.

                If RoR's errors are such a problem, go find another member that has an old version they can send you or illegally download it somewhere, I don't care where and if you get caught, that's on you entirely.

                Take what you want from these posts and understand it however you want. I tried to help you understand but you don't want to. Discussion over, anything from here on will just be trolling and I refuse to reply any further.
                • Heatdvoid

                  Heatdvoid Aquatic Astronaut

                  It doesn't need to be open source for mods (any fixes made would be through modding so yes it is relevant) ya know. Terraria has loads of mods and it isn't open source at all last I checked.
                  • alyphen

                    alyphen Master Chief

                    In response to mageblood and Linio, I think you're both referring to different things. Linio states there is "one dev" on the team - meaning that there is one programmer (which is stated on the page linked by mageblood to be Duncan.) However, mageblood states there are more than one person on the team - which is also correct.

                    GM:S adds a barrier to contribution if it WAS made open source, as you'd have to pay a fair amount of money to just start using most of the IDE features that make RoR work.

                    GM:S doesn't easily allow scripts to be run dynamically any more, since instead of attaching the game to a runner, it does some further compilation and optimisation steps. I think there might be some extensions for running Lua or something though.
                    Terraria is written in C# with XNA, which makes it a lot easier to modify. (Games like "The Sims" are also written in C#.)

                    It's possible to obtain the source of v1.1.2 and earlier through GM decompilers.

                    Distributing the source with the game (or even charging a separate distribution cost for source) may give people an incentive to buy it - it may not even be open source, but source may be available, they could still prohibit distribution of modified source or whatever with a license, while allowing modified versions, patches, and research on game internals.

                    There's been talk of rewriting the client with a few people - SkyHunter and I have been doing work on a from-scratch protocol-compatible server (mostly me recently, as SkyHunter sems to be bogged down with work more than I am, and he hasn't logged onto Skype for a while.) and after doing so, it may be plausible to write a protocol-compatible client. (I've been thinking about doing a 3D rendering frontend or something) I think this is probably our best bet, and it can be written with a far superior backend to GM.

                    As far as server reimplimentation goes, check here - we may be able to solve some of the bugs without even touching the client code.

                    One final thing, games developed as fully open source can still make a decent profit - Fight the Dragon does exactly this (and is available on Steam) and has a pretty decent following.

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