Race Meet the Desulti

Discussion in 'NPCs and Creatures' started by Jonesy, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    Nowhere does it say all the technological change take place in a human's lifetime; only the very, very early stages. To be honest, I made there be a survivor in order for the Roos to get a better understanding of human culture. I considered them doing that based solely on documents they found on the ship (hence the cargo cult idea), but I was unsure if they would be able to translate it without a person being there. If it's possible they were eventually able to translate, the human survivor would be redundant, and I could write him out of their history.

    And you have a point. While I had imagined the ship was off-course, humans may still have had contact. If it's too much of a problem, I could go back to my earlier idea of a damaged Australian deep-space probe instead of a ship. Since it was damaged, it woudn't have detected the Roos (especially in their primitive state) and manage to crash on their planet. Inside could be historical and cultural documents, along with a universal translator AI or something.

    So, do you think those would help correct the issues?
  2. Nerva

    Nerva Parsec Taste Tester

    The thing about the Survivor is that he taught them his language (which they immediately adopted over their own), and was on hand to get them started. To tell them, "hey, this stuff has a purpose beyond being something to worship. I'm not worshiping it - I'm trying to fix it so I can use it." A cargo cult wouldn't form there - a cult around the person would. They might worship his affects and belongings after he dies, but they realize that these things had a use, and that they could study them, build duplicates, and use them on their own, while leaving the sacred originals alone. The Stranger would basically be a prophet, worshiped along the lines of Muhammad or Jesus.

    The reason cargo cults get started is because the natives don't understand how or why or what purpose the items serve, nobody bothers to explain the usage of the objects to them, and as a result they immediately jump to religious conclusions. This stymies any attempt to reverse-engineer the objects, because they're too sacred to mess with.
    This is a good start, but my advice is to abandon the idea of a cargo cult entirely.

    Perhaps there were some Roos who wanted to argue that the probe was sacred and it was to be enshrined, but they were ousted by those who weren't superstitious and instead wanted to study the probe. When they cracked it open, they found the historical and cultural documents and items you mentioned, a damaged translational AI capable of reading the documents and answering basic questions from its database, and they began working from there.

    It's possible that this probe taught them about 19th-21st century rocketry and space exploration, which jumpstarted their research into things like metallurgy, chemistry, and geometry. This accelerated their development into a spacefaring race, but the work was still their own. They achieved spaceworthiness in, say, the space of three to five centuries, instead of a couple millenia.

    The Australian accent comes from listening to Australian cultural recordings. They figured that this was how native speakers of the language spoke it, and so they attempted to emulate that. Since they didn't have a full dictionary and the probe was damaged, they still include lots of words from their original language scattered amongst the Aussie-English, forming a sort of pinyin-hybrid (kinda like Singaporeans often speak a hybrid of their own language and English in MMORPGS, called Singlish). Exposure to humans would quickly reveal that the probe is human in origin, and since their language already includes a lot of English, transitioning to fully-English speech is easy for them, allowing quick integration into interstellar society, once they're discovered.

    It would be exposure to humans and other spacefaring races that would finally lift the Roos to interstellar capability. They've used their limited rocket-based craft to colonize a couple habitable worlds in their star system, but trading with other races finally got them over the last hurdle to warp technology. I'd imagine their tech is kinda primitive, but serviceable, easily-repaired, easily jury-rigged with whatever's available when supplies are scarce, and often hand-built. "Hull breach? Ah bloody hell, I'll just weld this here spare floor plate over the hole, It'll hold 'till I can get 'er to a station."

    As a result, they'd be kinda rural, a little backwoodsy, but canny and resourceful, and more in touch with their aboriginal roots than races that didn't progress so fast (they've had less time to forget their old traditions). They're quite at home riding hovercrafts or tamed beasts through the desert to hunt critters for sport, wrestling large river predators, carving wood and bone into statuettes and scrimshaw, or fishing. They'd also nicely bridge the gap between the very primal and tribal Florans and humanity, providing a race that's civilized, but also enjoys "roughing it" and retains good ol' fashioned survival instincts.

    Of course, this is just how I see them. Use, ignore, adjust as you see fit.
  3. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    I can see some very good ideas there. I'd still like to keep the later history in there, but I might fiddle around with the earlier history to make it closer to your suggestion. It seems to make a bit more sense that way.
  4. Tleno

    Tleno Spaceman Spiff

    If you feel like defying stereotypes, why not make their planetary climate different? Like, more frosty than Australia with tundras for plains, or something like that...

    P.S. What I suggest is adding some Canada to this >_>
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  5. linkthegamer

    linkthegamer Master Astronaut

    But if they are Australian French-Canadians I will never be able to understand them. D8
  6. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    Good idea, but I think we'll keep the temparate / desert planet. I'll save the tundra planet for a race of Russian bears...:mwahaha:

    Edit: I've updated the history to include the commuity's feedback. Be sure to let me know what you think.
  7. ImmortalFrog

    ImmortalFrog Oxygen Tank

    Don't the Apex count as anthropomorphism?

    Anyways I do support this but it needs a better lore.
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  8. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    Yeah, the Apex are anthropomorphic. The Avians, Hylotl and technically the Florans are as well.

    And what would you suggest to fix the lore? I'm more than happy to work feedback back into the idea to improve it.
  9. ImmortalFrog

    ImmortalFrog Oxygen Tank

    I'm more of a reader than writer but I'll try. For one thing the main character of the game (you) flees the planet. Why? Political struggles? Plague? Or giant japanese monsters attacking the planet? So far the Roos are a perfect culture that was bestowed with human knowledge. All races have flaws and so should the Desulti (I love that name BTW :3). The only flaws they have is a bit racism. Maybe that should be exaggerated to a point where the Desulti murder any other race. This could be the reason the player runs away.

    Another thing is that it's too Kangaroo and less Desulti. I understand that it's the evolved form of Kangaroos but it should vary a bit more. Imagine if Gyarados baws just a bipedal version of Magikarp. Maybe some new features should be added.

    Also ease a bit on the Australia references. It's a completely new environment so "Hello mate" doesn't seem suitable. Having a certain species from earth makes us wonder where all the other animals were.
  10. Sousuke Kuroda

    Sousuke Kuroda Spaceman Spiff

  11. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    I see. I'm not entirely sure how the Desulti homeworld will be destroyed yet. That is, of course, assuming that each race has a different one from the giant monster seen in the human intro. The most probable event will be an uprising or widespread terror attacks by the xenophobes.

    And you're probably right about it being too kangaroo. Ditching the tails might be a good place to start, but at some level they need to maintain similarities.

    Any particular reasons for this decision you wish to share?
  12. Ceane

    Ceane Void-Bound Voyager

    Wow, you put a shitton of detail and effort into this. Nice job Jonesy. I just feel sorry for Tiy and the thousands of more descriptions he'll have to write in Aussie slang.
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  13. Sousuke Kuroda

    Sousuke Kuroda Spaceman Spiff

    Sure I guess.

    Anthropmorphic animal. Never been particularly fond of the concept and the fact that their young are named joeys tells me that they are not far enough removed from their Kangaroo counterparts to be seriously considered an alien species.

    If that was indeed the case, I find it somewhat hard to believe that they would then go on to study a space probe. If they are indeed a nomadic species then they aren't too technologically advanced, and a Space probe to them would be the equivalent of a battery dead iPhone to a caveman. In short. THIS:

    Wouldn't have happened.

    Why would a probe have anything in it other than electronic components made for storing data?

    This appears to me to be a bit disjointed from what happens next. "They set out to discover what these messages meant." would imply that they walked away from the probe, rather than the probe spawning a person and speaking to them.

    Generally the kind of species that is quick to label something a demon the minute it pops up is the kind of species to believe that this something is attempting to trick them and cause them harm later.

    What was this probe for exactly? Was it designed to make contact with alien races? If so, why did it crash? Wouldn't it be designed to land? (I know these questions are answered later, somewhat ineffectually) Furthermore, if we ever got to the stage where we could send out space probes, I think we would speak more about our home PLANET rather than a single Island nation. This doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.

    Again, why is a probe designed to explore space also designed to ONLY talk about a SINGLE CONTINENT which even in the future will have possibly the LOWEST population per square kilometer. This doesn't make any sense, I'd be more inclined to believe that the probe mentions Australia in passing as the species looks similar to some marsupials on the continent before going on to talk about Earth as a whole. Australia just isn't a very important nation, and this is coming from a proud Australian.

    Implies the AI has some form of emotion/sentience. If its primary design is to explore space and MAYBE communicate with alien races, it would be poor form to give it the capability to form biased opinions of that species. Not to mention that if some alien race dropped a probe in my back yard, came out and started referring to me affectionately as "chimpy" I'd be pretty damn offended.

    My major issue here is that clearly this AI was not designed for an exploration probe in the slightest. This thing seems to have been made specifically to seek out alien races and effectively teach them Human culture in an effort to uplift them into powerful allies over a few centuries. And again, why is Australia the only continent mentioned? Not to burst your bubble but there are thousands of cultures on this planet and the vast majority of them are arguably more interesting than the 'true blue' Australian attitude.

    Oh yes I can already see the part of Australian culture that must have enticed these NOMADIC creatures that have respect for their environment.

    "Chuck us a durry love, we'll go out n' watch State of Origin and get maggot."

    Ship or Probe? Probe and the technology would be fairly limited and they'd end up killing the AI inadvertently. Ship and the technology would be fairly advanced and the AI would normally be programmed to prevent any damage to its systems. Either way, I don't see them succeeding with their reverse engineering seeing as the AI only wants to talk about Australian history. A nation which in the very far future may well not even exist as the Earth unites under a single flag.

    Yes, I should hope they don't make the mistake of putting an overly complex AI on an exploration probe that decides to spend the majority of its life detailing the island nation of Australia rather than the rest of the planet Earth or indeed the laws of physics and chemistry, as well as storing physical documents on the probe itself rather than save time and space by storing it digitally.

    Come on man, the entire description of this planet that I've read screams "SPACE AUSTRALIA IN SPACE!!!!" The entire planet is covered with the all encompassing "AUSTRALIA" biome and the people even live in the same regions despite the fact that Kangaroos are incredibly well adapted to living ANYWHERE on the continent.

    Oh so I was literally right on the market before when I said this:
    "Chuck us a durry love, we'll go out n' watch State of Origin and get maggot."

    I don't know why but something tells me that a race of nomadic kangaroo men would develop somewhat differently than the white convict settlers.

    This race has developed far too quickly. They unified in centuries when realistically it would take millenia, and FYI, reverse engineering technology generally requires that you have a basic knowledge of the Sciences, again, I use the analogy of the battery dead iPhone given to a tribe of Cave Man. It doesn't matter how advanced that technology is, if you can't even understand the basics of it, you are not going to be able to reverse engineer it and apply it to your civilization.

    Those were just a few of my reasons. You've done very little to make this race truly unique. They are just a carbon copy of Australia in a very predictable manner. Every other race has had some sort of twist to their culture which cannot be found here. You've gone so far to even model their environment after that of Australia and even their living patterns after that of Australia. The fact that they are an alien race almost seems secondary to your desire to see Australian culture portrayed in painful prominence in Starbound. I do hope that someone mods this into the game for you because I can see that you want it. But I really hope it doesn't make it into the base game.

    I'm sorry if that seemed a little harsh, but I don't hold back on my criticism.
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  14. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    Damn right it seemed harsh. :down: While constructive criticism is appreciated, I'm hardly going to care if all you do is pick holes in the idea. Maybe I'll look into some of those points later, if I feel up to it. While I see areas I can improve on, I'm starting to wonder if you're over-thinking the whole thing a bit too much.
  15. Tleno

    Tleno Spaceman Spiff

    And here comes Captain Stop-having-fun-guys again.. :rolleyes:

    Anyways, erm...

    - Well, Apex worship bananas, bananas that shouldn't even be present on other planets than Earth. Also, please note that it's more rational to compare the race's alieness by comparing it and races present ingame, not developing your own criterias that may be based on reality but aren't that argumented by game's universe examples.

    -Well, there were some satelites/probes launched containing more content than just electronics - you know, like there was that one with Golden Disc containing recorded sounds from our planet.

    -Also, please note that, you know, it's actually very likely for the probe to have been launched in space by Australians, not even a government, but just some random people. You know, humanity is on the verge of space age, every nutjob can buy himself a probe, record anything he likes and send it in space - stuff becomes cheaper over time, and even nowdays some people have launching rockets in space as a hobby.

    -Once again, your deconstruction and judging is rather subjective... why do you even bother with such subjective arguments without giving any constructive criticism, again?
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  16. Sousuke Kuroda

    Sousuke Kuroda Spaceman Spiff

    I don't mean to be rude but picking holes in the idea is only going to help you improve it. Furthermore if you didn't want my opinion you really shouldn't have asked me to elaborate.

    I haven't seen anything that explicitly states that Apex worship bananas and it isn't impossible that they'd develop a taste for them after being introduced to the fruit after humans got into space. Furthermore I have looked at it compared to other races in game.

    Not really comparable, he's pointed out that this is an exploration probe, furthermore if this were a probe sent by the World government I think its pretty safe to say that if they were going to put on it any human history, they'd go a lot further than the history of the Island Nation of Australia between the 18th and 21st century. (Its pretty clear that this is the era he's limited the knowledge to due to the way in which the culture manifests in this species. Australian culture as it is will not last forever, all cultures change over time.)

    Judging by the era you'd need to be in for every average joe to have access to the kind of technology that allows sentient Artificial Intelligence and interstellar probes, Australian culture would be infinitely different from what it is now. Furthermore by that stage people are far more likely to identify by their planet of origin rather than country of origin.

    I think you're underestimating interstellar travel and artificial intelligence a little bit.

    Um... I'll quote the reason why:

    Because he asked me for it, and he'd do well not to take it personally because I did not direct the criticism toward him as a person. Furthermore you'll find that most, if not all judgement on this sort of thing is pretty subjective. He didn't ask me for ways to improve on his ideas, he asked me for why I dislike it. So I gave him those reasons. If he wants me to provide a means of improving on his idea (which judging from his reaction to the criticism, he wont) then he can ask, and I'll oblige.
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  17. Ceane

    Ceane Void-Bound Voyager

    >Apex are monkeys
    >Avians are birds
    >Hylotl are fish
    >Florans are plants

    I think the game already has a bit of anthropomorphism, so that's not something you can really call out. But I'm not going to nitpick through every point you made.

    Also you didn't really give constructive criticism, just said what he did wrong, with no way to improve it.
    Didn't see what you just posted, sorry.
  18. Sousuke Kuroda

    Sousuke Kuroda Spaceman Spiff

    I know, and it isn't a primary reason that I dislike this particular species. Furthermore just because the Devs think anthropomorphic species such as the Apex/Avians are good ideas doesn't mean that I do. I don't like anthropomorphic animals, anthropomorphic plants or species with aquatic properties are a different matter altogether.
  19. Jonesy

    Jonesy Sarif's Attack Kangaroo Forum Moderator

    Alright, I'm just going to back up a second. Here's what's happening on my end.

    1. I was surprised by the amount of criticism you had, and the way it was delivered. Admittedly, it was a bit upsetting. Maybe I was taking it personally, but I see now that you mean well. I did, after all, ask for your opinion.

    2. You may noticed I edited my post to get rid of the "your opinion doesn't matter" bit. Like I said, I was a bit upset at the time. I regretted saying it, so I edited my post to something less confrontational.

    3. I have a suspicion that much of your criticism is somewhat subjective, and not very constructive at all. But there is truth to some of it. While I cannot guarantee that I will address every single one of your issues, I will certainly make an attempt on ones that I feel will help improve the overall idea.

    Now, I think don't think arguing will help. I accept the fact that you didn't mean to offend. Hopefully now I can just focus on using your feedback to improve the idea.
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  20. Sousuke Kuroda

    Sousuke Kuroda Spaceman Spiff

    If you want some suggestions I'll provide some.

    1. Take into account that the way they're introduced to Australian 21st Century culture is highly unlikely. Especially given that this is a supposedly nomadic species which respects its environment. Which, to be completely honest as an Australian myself, is not true of our culture. We take what we want and that in part plays into our behavior. (Excessive drinking/cooking and such). Either change the inherent nature of your species (which is not a very attractive option) or look for a better way for their culture to develop. Perhaps instead adopt a very Aboriginal style culture, without explicitly referring to the dream time and such.

    2. Don't mention Australia by name. Do realize that countries come and go, and while it'd be nice, Australia wont exist as an independent nature in the far future (unless we somehow head a united government, which is highly unlikely). You'd be far better off allowing the species to develop naturally, and with some outside influence, eventually develop into a society akin to that of Australia. As it stands at the moment, all you've really done is taken the Australian continent, turned it into a planet, and then turned its inhabitants into Kangaroos. Its great to draw inspiration from Australian culture, but not to copy and paste it.

    3. Introduce more outside influence. At the moment you have a single probe which seems to only really contain information pertaining to Australia. It would be more interesting and realistic if this species was somewhat morphed by multiple influences over a long period of time. That would realistically turn a peaceful nomadic civilization into one more akin to modern Australia. As for why there are so many influences you could devise a myriad of reasons that would also serve to add more originality to the planet design (which at the moment is essentially a planet where every continent is Australia), such as special resources or even a wormhole used by a distant civilization (possibly even human) to dump their garbage. Leading to the occasional orbital bombardment of technology onto the planet, and thus inspiring curiosity in your species. It doesn't matter what the reason is, but you'd have a far better chance of seeing your race in the game if you get really creative about how they're introduced to Australian culture, as opposed to having a robot pop in and tell them all about it.

    I have more if you're interested, if not I'll be on my merry way.

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