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Sniper SmokeScreen, Enforcer Turtling, and more!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by DJFlare84, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. DJFlare84

    DJFlare84 Spaceman Spiff

    I'd hate to leave you hanging, then. Very well.

    You're absolutely right. The Sniper is one of the best kiters in the game, but this is because his gameplay style REQUIRES kiting in order to be effective.

    The fallacy in your argument is that you assume Snipe is good at clearing crowds when spammed (hint: it's not). The only characters that can claim any really useful crowd-clearing capability with their basic attack are guys like Enforcer and Han-D. NOT Sniper.

    A Sniper could POSSIBLY clear a Jar of Ants by jumping around like an idiot and spamming Snipe. He would just do it so painfully slow you might as well give up rather than move on to the next stage. I mean, let's not forget. Time is kind of an issue.

    Admittedly if you're already at "HAHAHA" difficulty and you're not really going to improve anymore
    (already at Temple of Elders with a whole can of whoop-ass items), then time is no longer an issue. At this point the issue becomes the simple fact that it's unbearably BORING.

    So, I guess you're right. Situationally.
     
    • Strill

      Strill Space Hobo

      So then if you see a potential problem area during the spawn timer, you keep moving until you reach a long flat area. After the timer ends, you go back and clear out a few stragglers, and it's ok that you're only using Snipe because there's only five or six of them.


      Difficulty scales indefinitely.
       
      • DJFlare84

        DJFlare84 Spaceman Spiff

        Eh, Snipe takes too long for my liking. It's really not a great attack even if you're spamming perfect reloads. Especially at them higher difficulties...
        Huh. Neat.
         
        • Dolphinflavored

          Dolphinflavored Star Wrangler

          Suggestion: maybe time could pause (or at least slow down) every time you need to reload. It could get annoying, but it would make DPS higher.
           
            Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
          • pyromancerLaurentius

            pyromancerLaurentius Scruffy Nerf-Herder

            I can't see that working amazingly well with mutiplayer.
             
            • Dolphinflavored

              Dolphinflavored Star Wrangler

              Maybe it could just stop (or slow down) the enemies and you around you /on screen.

              Or at the least the enemies in your line of sight during steady aim
              Yeah I like that a lot more.
               
                Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
              • SPLlT

                SPLlT Big Damn Hero

                Seems needlessly OP (especially for multiplayer)
                 
                • DJFlare84

                  DJFlare84 Spaceman Spiff

                  Agreed. A better fix would be to just simply not make the Sniper stop moving when he reloads.
                   
                  • Dolphinflavored

                    Dolphinflavored Star Wrangler

                    OR just make him slower...
                     
                    • SPLlT

                      SPLlT Big Damn Hero

                      Why bother changing an already decent mechanic for no reason at all?
                      The sniper's reload is fine as is, his piercing/cooldown timers are what need work.
                       
                      • Dolphinflavored

                        Dolphinflavored Star Wrangler

                        What needs work is obviously arguable.
                        Anyway, I know that those things need improvement. I was just... Speculating.
                        I agree there is no reason to add it, and other things are more important, but I also see no reason not to.

                        It would be easier to escape a jar of ants and do more damage than none, at least.
                         
                        • SPLlT

                          SPLlT Big Damn Hero

                          Just to be clear, no reason not to add a slow-motion effect to the sniper's reload?
                          Yes, there is reason.
                          The reason that RoR's quick paced combat will then be interrupted with constant slow-motion effects every time the sniper wants to reload.
                          And what's the point?
                          The sniper gets no special perks from this, apart from maybe some time to let the sprouting egg begin healing.

                          Of course, this is assuming that the player is playing in singleplayer.
                          Otherwise the sniper would go from being sniper to "that annoying guy who slows down our game, we wish he would just die sooner"
                           
                          • reVelske

                            reVelske Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                            How would it in any way shape or form affect your ability to escape a jar of ants? Do you honestly stop dead to reload? If so (which would explain why you'd even ask for such a change in the first place), you are playing the Sniper wrong, if you ever cared to, it'll take you no more than 2 games at max to get used to the perfect reload timing with hop.
                             
                            • Dolphinflavored

                              Dolphinflavored Star Wrangler

                              Oh, sorry, I realized that slowing down time wouldn't work and I was supporting, instead of having to stop to reload, (or jump and reload, which I still can't do ALL the time) you slow down. Not time, or enemies, the character. Jump/reload would not be effected.

                              I don't know what I was saying when I said "ability to escape a jar of ants". I was just talking about-if you happened to (not jump and) reload in the middle of a jar of ants, which is a bad thing already, you would just be able to get out of it faster than if you stopped altogether

                              Basically what I want to say is that the problem with the sniper IMO is the fact that he is hard(er) to learn to play with than every character. So, to solve the problem, I would say eliminate the need to learn 'skills' like the jump/perfect reload, but still keep them as options.
                              Bottom line is, jumping and reloading is better than stopping to reload (obviously), except jumping and reloading is hard to learn and execute consistently. This basically forces you to learn the Jump/Reload technique. Therefore, it's difficult to learn the jump/reload technique, and you have to learn it anyway.
                              So for people that don't want to undergo the process of learning this technique, you can just make reloading and moving easier. The solution I believe-instead of making the reload completely void-is to just slow him down.

                              It's unbelievable how much I need to type to explain this :p (I know it's my fault for these misunderstandings).
                               
                              • reVelske

                                reVelske Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                I don't personally think there's anything wrong with having a bit of skill requirement to specific classes in a game like this, and it's not a terribly high skill requirement anyways. If people don't want to bother with learning a specific class, that's all well and good, there's no reason why you have to be proficient with every class available. This, however, does not in any way shape or form translate to the class itself being bad, fighting games tend to provide some pretty good examples for this point.

                                Frankly, I found Miner's playstyle and invulnerability harder to learn and get used to than whatever Sniper has to offer, but that might just be me initially failing to understand the mechanics behind Backblast.
                                 
                                • Dolphinflavored

                                  Dolphinflavored Star Wrangler

                                  Yeah I guess your right :p
                                  I've never played the miner, yet, though.
                                   
                                  • DJFlare84

                                    DJFlare84 Spaceman Spiff

                                    Reloading during a jump is still annoying. It's an easy skill to learn, but coupled with all the troubles he already has dealing with a Jar of Ants it's just one more problem he DOESN'T need.

                                    I agree, however, that it's such a minor issue it doesn't warrant much attention, but it'd be a Quality of Life improvement regardless.

                                    As for the Miner's backblast, that had me confused, too. I always thought it would blast the enemy in front of you as you propelled backward, because the little explosion appeared in front of you and everything? Well, it actually, instead, works like a backwards Drill Charge. You hurt the things you pass through.
                                     
                                    • reVelske

                                      reVelske Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                      I bunnyhop with every class, so I hardly find it to be a quality of life issue, besides, you kinda need to bunnyhop like mad anyways with almost every class, I'm surprised you aren't completely used to that anyways.

                                      And yeah, that with the Miner was rather confusing, once you get that down, understand that length of invulnerability and good skill rotation, he just becomes an absolute beast.
                                       
                                      • DJFlare84

                                        DJFlare84 Spaceman Spiff

                                        I definitely Bunny-Hop with the Engi. He's nasty with bunnyhops. But I can't see Huntress needing to. Or Han-D (You'd be screwing up if you bunny-hopped as him). Enforcer fights by hunkering down and blasting away while crawling in PoS. Bunny-Hops wouldn't HURT his gameplay, but they also wouldn't really add anything to it, I imagine...

                                        I'm not used to bunny-hopping because aside from a Jar of Ants, I never NEED to as the Sniper. Run, roll, charge a shot, blam. I'm good to go. Sniper can handle pretty much everything else with style and panache'.
                                         
                                        • SPLlT

                                          SPLlT Big Damn Hero

                                          1. The huntress doesn't move that fast, you will need to use jumps to survive as the huntress
                                          2. Forced reassembly is less risky if you incorporate a jump into it
                                          3. There are some situations where the enforcer can't just sit and shoot

                                          These are all "in-combat" situations where jumps are necessary.
                                          I'd also like to add that the huntress doesn't have any invincibility frames, so jumps are vital to her survival.
                                          (Since you can basically dodge almost every attack by jumping)
                                           
                                            Last edited: Jan 30, 2014

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