Sniper SmokeScreen, Enforcer Turtling, and more!

I never noticed such a level of complexity on either of my two favorite characters, Commando and Enforcer. Commando is simple, just timing the Roll correctly, and Enforcer is all about finding the right place to hunker down and plug away with PaS (unless a magma worm is involved, then you need to either run down the timer or find somewhere where spawns won't be annoying, which I guess MIGHT count).

 

This supports the point of manipulating one's surroundings. As a sniper, one's goal is often to find a wide open area that prevents spawns in annoying tight spaces. As you said, enforcer is about finding a good wall to hide against.

In the case of both characters, there is generally a spot on the map that makes doing this the easiest. Both characters try to go to and stay in that map. The principle is very similar it's just that it's less immediately obvious that sniper should be played this way. The point still stands even with other characters since there are typically locations that make it harder to fight for all characters and choosing to fight in the wrong place can be lethal for all characters. The difference sniper has is that if you choose the wrong place you won't die until after the spawn timer runs out and you'll think "the sniper is so weak since I can't clear out enemy hordes", whereas if you play as enforcer you'll die beforehand and you'll think "I shouldn't have stood there". What I think some people may want to consider is that the "I shouldn't have stood there" logic still applies to sniper even if your mistake isn't immediately lethal.

This being said, I'm not completely opposed to making the sniper more able to fight where he should be fighting, but I don't really see a need to enable him to fight where he shouldn't be fighting.

 

I'm pretty sure nobody here complained about the difficulty of getting a perfect reload.

There might be people doing that, but they aren't doing it here. Everything about your post was not only wrong, but un-necessarily insulting. Kindly redirect yourself away from this place. Nobody wants to speak with you.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but SPAWN CONTROL IS NOT A RELIABLE TACTIC IN THE LEAST.

It can be done, yes, but due to the oddity of spawns and how frequently monsters will outright refuse to despawn regardless of how far you travel away from them, it's not one that will always WORK.

So saying Spawn Control is a good way to avoid a Jar of Ants is like saying "grab a Jar of Souls". WHAT IF I DON'T GET ONE?

Also, I can't say that I agree on your assertion that Spawn Controlling as the Sniper is comparable to Enforcer finding a ledge or a wall to hunker down against. There are ledges and walls everywhere.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about

I don't see what's so insulting about my post. I'm just tired of people like you who don't know how to play the Sniper talk about buffing him. If you can't play him, how do you know what's are appropriate buffs to begin with? Do you feel insulted because you can't play the Sniper? I'm trying to help players like you. I believe that the reason players like you, who don't understand how to play the Sniper at all is because of how slow they get their Perfect Reload.

Also it's no wonder you said you can't beat Monsoon on any of your characters. If you believe spawn control isn't a reliable tactic then you're gonna continue to fail over and over again. Do you agree that how you deal with mobs is important in Risk of Rain? If so, then why don't you believe in spawn control? You're always throwing that term Jars of Ants around. I assume that means a small place riddled with mobs? If that's what it means then that's exactly why I keep mentioning picking where and how long you fight in a certain area. You're probably letting that Jars of Ants thing happen all the time and you're not suppose to. If it's not an ideal fighting condition, then run to a better one. Usually a open area where mobs are easier to fight as they spawn works for most of the characters I play such as the Sniper.

 

Watch this.

And that was in the SMALLER of your two paragraphs alone.

All of these assumptions about me and people like me. You're wrong because you didn't read anything about what I actually feel is the Sniper's main weakness. You just come in here to gloat about how badass you are at playing Sniper (not saying you aren't), while at the same time making an absolute mess of yourself.

I have no issue with getting perfect reloads. I even said so in my LAST post, which you clearly disregarded because, let's face it, you don't give a shit.

You assume that people who call for a character to get buffs immediately don't know how to play a class.

You assume people who can't beat Monsoon mode don't know how to play a class.

You assume that my issue with the Sniper is that I can't get perfect reloads or that I take too long to get them, or that I find them particularly difficult to achieve, despite me not saying a damn thing to that effect.

You assume a lot of things without really checking your facts. That alone makes you a humongous idiot and I have no problem saying so at this point.

The reason I say Spawn Control is unreliable is because it flat out doesn't WORK sometimes. Read very carefully because I get the impression you won't unless I tell you to: I BELIEVE THAT SPAWN CONTROL -DOES- OCCASIONALLY WORK, BUT ONLY OCCASIONALLY BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE GAME JUST SAYS "F*** YOU, TOO BAD" AND MAKES IT FAIL. SIMPLY WALKING AWAY FROM MONSTERS DOES NOT IN ANY WAY GAURANTEE THEY WILL VANISH. SOMETIMES THEY DO, I WILL GIVE YOU THAT, BUT SOMETIMES (AND NOT "RARELY", MIND YOU) THEY JUST PLAIN DO NOT.

Here's a fun fact for you: When a tactic does not work 100% of the time, it is not reliable. That is LITERAL.

 

You never stated in your last post that you have no issues with perfect reload. You said no one has said they have issues with it. Looks like I'm not the only one who isn't reading here. My first paragraph was to emphasize that my posts are directed to a specific few, the people who can't play the sniper. Even though I believe you are one of them, it's not all about you. Many of times I said people like you, the people who can't play sniper. Even still, is that an insult? Saying you can't play the Sniper is an insult? It's not. Once again I'm just making it very clear that I'm targeting players who can't play the Sniper.

I've seen many players, including myself, struggle to find what's good about the Sniper and how he works simply because they reload way too slowly. It's the common demoninator for most of them. That's why I advise on multiple occasions to practice that. Once you get that down the doors to success open up more frequently since it's all about speed. How fast you find the teleporter, how clear mobs and how fast you shop so you move onto the next stage. If you dish out damage/kill too slowly, you can't do any of that.

Whoa whoa whoa....When did I say anything about making monsters vanish? Is that what you assumed I meant this entire time? I honestly think you're the only one who assumed I was suggesting that. That's not what I'm talking about at all. When I said map manipulation, I was talking in regards to where you allow them to spawn. I'm not 100% sure on this but I'm pretty sure monsters don't expire once they are in range of the Teleporter once you active it, and any that spawn after it will still be there no matter where you go. So with that in mind, I kept suggesting that players don't fight in spots where monsters can spawn in limited spaces because they'll become to overbearing to handle. I advocate running and spreading the spawns apart in different areas if you don't have the damage to clear them fast enough.

Edit: You like to assume things too apparently cause I didn't post those things to gloat. I posted it to prove a point on how the Sniper can be very good once these tactics are implemented. That video isn't even me it's Split.

 

So, does that mean I have issues with perfect reloads?

At least you admit it.

It's an insult because I actually believe I can play Sniper just fine. You assume I can't, and prefer to believe I can't.

I have no issue with the Sniper other than his survivability in a Jar of Ants. If you've been reading (and I'll assume you have, being positive for once), a Jar of Ants is a small ledge or pit trapped with enemies and set in such a manner that the Sniper can only attack by jumping into the area where the monsters are, putting himself at risk.

This immediately poses a threat to the Sniper, who needs to put distance between him and his enemies to safely attack.

A Jar of Ants, at the moment, can only be safely cleared by having a proper use-item like Jar of Souls, or getting very lucky with Spawn Control and avoiding one happening at all. Which, again, I find to be NOT 100% RELIABLE, which is why I don't consider it a valid excuse for the Sniper's flaw.

Yes, it's not particularly hard to just get good at getting perfect reloads. It's not a difficult skill.

The reason I assume (admittedly, assumed) you meant monsters vanishing is because everyone else bringing up Spawn Control has stated that it is the very reason it can counter a Jar of Ants situation. If you aren't making a Jar of Ants vanish by despawning them then I see no other purpose for Spawn Control.

It's primarily why many people are yelling "Spawn Control" at me as a solution to the Jar of Ants situation.

Yes, running around also allows you to dictate where monsters appear by simply avoiding areas where a Jar of Ants can appear, but given the randomized location of gates, doing so all the time is unfeasible.

I should restate, again, Spawn Control does work. However, it doesn't work often enough for my liking.

Also, I should apologize. I called you a humongous idiot in my previous post, and whether I believe it or not is irrelevant. I like to try and be an example of how people in a community should act and that wasn't a very shining example.

 

Spawn Control as in just not being anywhere near small ledges where the "jar of ants" situation can manifest, as monsters ONLY spawn in close proximity to your current location. By simply not being anywhere near those, you can avoid creating the situation in the first place.

 

This is hard for some people to understand.

 

Depending where the gate is when you activate it, you will often be forced to pass by areas where a Jar of Ants can be created.

 

Then keep moving? Or unless you count 3-4 monsters on a single ledge as Jar of Ants.

 

How fast do you think these this Jar of Ants thing can occur before it's unmanageable? A single spawn won't create it. Just keep running til you get to a proper spot. It's even more doable on Rainstorm....

 

That's a good question, actually. It depends on what kind of monster we're talking. For instance, 3 or 4 Rock/Snow Golems would definitely be something to worry about. POW POW POW POW, you're dead.

After Stage 2, spawns during the timer get a bit more out of hand than I think either of you are willing to admit to.

And it's not just about running, but in some circumstances you might not be ABLE to run.

I just did a run as Sniper to test the rapidity of spawns and after starting the timer in Stage-3, I got a bit overwhelmed by a huge crowd (Mechanical Spiders and their red missiles can SUCK it), and had to run down a nearby ladder for some momentary regeneration. As it turns out, the only ladder that was safely out of reach of the many enemies spawning with red-missile capability was a long one between two areas with kinda small-ish platforms. They weren't QUITE Jars of Ants and after my healing drone recovered me to half HP I was able to clear them out, but because of my HP I was halted from advancing for the sake of my own safety. If those platforms above or below me had been the right size and shape for a Jar of Ants I would've been fucked 10 ways to Sunday with no recourse.

 

We had this discussion a couple pages back and I only just realized that until now you misunderstood me when I made a note about spawns vanishing. My intent with spawn control is that one avoids places where bad things can spawn and by running around, the despawns may help a little more. As for the rest of this discussion.

I feel like in any given situation, you should be able to run through large crowds of enemies and reach wherever you need to go ( large flat spaces) with relative safety. Probably the only time I'd feel like this is hard is when you're swarmed by flying enemies, but dealing with those requires a lot more staying and fighting. Under the assumption that you can reach wherever you need to go (since this is generally one of a couple areas) in a stage in about 45-60 seconds in the worst cases I feel like it's fair to assume that jars of ants won't appear since you'll have been on the move for a while and it'll be spread out, and it will take a bit longer to kill but not particularly longer than normal.

If you disagree with the assumption of one's abilities to cross the map, then I'm unsure of what to tell you. I've had very little trouble with it in my experience since the sniper has a short knockback stun and a very long range fast backflip. If it really is impossible than I may restate my suggestion about giving the sniper a jetpack, since using it well allows one to move even more easily.

In addition, on how many enemies it takes to create a jar of ants. I find that if the number is less than 5 of anything but maybe parents (those are really hard to dodge around, but I think with practice I could do it pretty easily) I could easily handle a group of enemies without a significant loss to time. If the numbers reach ten then I'll probably be slowed down more significantly, but if you let that spawn then I suspect that you're travelling across the field inefficiently.

 

I actually don't find Parents all that difficult to deal with. It's the Golems that make a Jar of Ants dangerous for me, since they deal such absurdly high damage with each attack. As for my hesitation to continue travelling when I reached that vine, that was mostly a combination of mechanical spiders and red missiles, and being near-dead at 10-20 HP. I probably COULD have made it, but in Risk of Rain "probably" is not a chance I'm comfortable with. I'm a Smart Sniper, not a Brave one.

 

In terms of parents, I'm thinking of the ones on the fourth stage since those hit hard with long reach and I honestly don't play any character at range. Even with sniper I tend to shoot things in melee range which makes avoiding parents hard. I personally don't struggle with golems since I tend to walk up to a clump, wait for them to attack then rush through. The time is generally enough for me to get a shot in. Alternatively I think a short charge on steady aim midair may work similarly without much slowdown since it can be used to stun mid attack and then you can pass through while they charge up again.

I get the feeling that between all the players we could handle just about everything.

As for being a smart sniper, I'm more of a reckless anything when I play this game. Not that it works better it's just that sitting back and doing nothing is boring and that's not why I play.

 

The main thing that I like about dealing with parents is that the hit zone for their attacks is pretty much where their fists are. If you run right towards them and are at least around where their feet are when the blow lands, you're usually fine.

And, yeah. Short-charging Steady Aim is usually the strategy I use. Just get as much of a charge as I can before the horde closes in. Usually riiight before the moment they can attack. I like to squeeze out as much damage as I can without getting hit.

Honestly, that's my problem with the Sniper.

Every other class is built in such a way that, between their default skills alone, they CAN handle everything.

Sniper is the only character that can be defeated by a particular scenario, unquestionably.

Some people don't seem to quite grasp this concept, but if there is a particular enemy or scenario that is impossible to win, and your only option is to try to avoid it (again, either get lucky with spawn control or grab a particular use item), in a game where no other character has to do that, that is an incredibly lopsided balance issue.

Can I avoid a Jar of Ants by clever manipulation of spawn control? Possibly.

Should I HAVE to? NO. THAT is the problem I have.

 

Ok it seams like it will be difficult for us to agree on one thing. And its good thing! There is lots of different flavors and everyone has his own favorite! So in order to move things up a little i propose to discuss Bandit. My opinions:
*I like his Z -Blast. Nice firepower and fire rate when you add banner or syringe (or even without)
*His X -Dynamite feels little underpowered (mostly in later game). would like to see it launch enemies up like HAN-D's V like someone suggested previously, but I'm not sure if it would help or rather mess things up. Or maybe hold button to throw further?
*Smokebomb has loooong cooldown but it also lasts longer then you would expect and also speeds you up a little. Stun would make a little more sense on beginning then end but on the other hand it would mean that you could be dropped in the middle of the enemy swarm and die. But if you cancel smokebomb with dynamite that launches monsters into the air them it might just work.
*Lights Out . . . . . . Its unreliable as hell. almost impossible to use effectively in crowds. I try it only when want to reset smokebomb. The wind up time before attack doesn't help situation. would rather Blast away. there was idea to use piercing to GET to lowest health enemy but 600%dmg piercing is just to OP. I also have no idea how to fix it.




I suddenly got idea - do enemies scatter around when you use smokebomb? If so then how about trying to Lights Out enemy while in smoke? then it would be a lot easier as long as you have sufficient low health mobs. just shorten a little wind up time.

 

Lights Out is the worst skill I've ever had to deal with in this game.

 

I just wanted to say that the Sniper as-is, is my favorite, and most successful character. I don't think he needs very many changes. Perhaps audio and visual cues that you've perfect reloaded, and maybe change the targeting drone so it's more useful. I mean, it's great for killing bosses quick in some situations, but most of the time it targets an enemy that's too far away and doesn't make a difference. However, his other abilities are more than enough to compensate.

Personally I think the Bandit could use some help. The best I can figure is that you're supposed to Smokebomb, run as far as possible, Lights out on a weak enemy, spam Blast, and then when enemies reach you, smokebomb again and repeat. But that only works on flat areas, and it takes much longer to kill enemies than any of the other characters. I also can't figure out what to do if I don't have a flat plane.