Sniper SmokeScreen, Enforcer Turtling, and more!

A reload visual cue and a better audio cue sounds like a really good idea. As for Spotter, as it stands HP seems to be the sole determining factor of where the spotter goes, perhaps the proximity of the enemy needs to have a certain weight in the target calculation to make it more manageable.

 

I don't understand. How could four golems possibly pose an insurmountable obstacle? If you're in close quarters then just kite them. You'd have to just be sitting there standing still to get hit by them. I've never even heard of golems being a problem for the sniper. It's usually fast/ranged enemies like clay men, big wisps, and mechanical spiders.

 

I stopped replying to this guy when he said he can't walk pass golems lol. I suggest you not waste your time.

 

Don't take things horrendously out of context. He mentioned that in the context of a Jar-of-Ants scenario (which he has defined, many times throughout the entire topic), which makes what you just said incredibly stupid.

Please people, if you are going to include yourself in an ongoing discussion, read all of what has been said about it beforehand (especially when critiquing). You don't have to agree, but at least show some basic understanding of what you are commenting on, otherwise you tend to come across as a bit of a tool.

He didn't say that. You also should have realized this since you were one of the people he kept having to define the term jar-of-ants for, repeatedly.

 

I hope you're not serious, if only because I'm almost certain DJ has never said that. Honestly, it just sounds like you've fallen to mudslinging to try to prove you're right and show your superiority as a player and debater. This is known as Ad Hominem and is a logical fallacy.

 

I have read through the thread. The line of discussion was saying that one can prevent 'jar of ants' scenarios by simply moving until you reach a favorable area. He was saying that even four enemies in a confined space are a major threat to the sniper, and gave four golems as an example, and that proves that 'jar of ants' scenarios are unavoidable. I don't see how that few enemies can ever be a major threat, confined space or not.

Now are you going to make a point or not?

 

He did say that actually.

"Depending where the gate is when you activate it, you will often be forced to pass by areas where a Jar of Ants can be created."

Notice where he says he'll have to walk pass enemies after activating the teleporter. Someone then responds too him and says

"Then keep moving? Or unless you count 3-4 monsters on a single ledge as Jar of Ants."

To which he responds...

"That's a good question, actually. It depends on what kind of monster we're talking. For instance, 3 or 4 Rock/Snow Golems would definitely be something to worry about. POW POW POW POW, you're dead."

He clearly just said he might have trouble walking pass Golems. That's why Strill asked questioned his response.

 

So instead of further contributing to this 'jar-of-ants' debate/argument, why don't we just completely drop it and move on to the suggestions for potential improvements/nerfs for whatever characters a person deems necessary/fair? Almost 5 pages of this same discussion and some people just aren't getting anywhere with understanding, nor are some willing to accept/tolerate other people's views. If you don't have a suggestion, if you aren't going to fairly critique a suggestion, or if you aren't here to help add to or improve upon other's suggestions or your own, you probably should not post at all. This thread has gone far enough off topic by now.

With that, I can't just leave this as an 'empty' post without a proper suggestion, or agree on a previous suggestion, for at least one character.
Sniper piercing should be modified to have a minimum for steady aim instead of dropping to 1s. Adding critical to perfect reloads could be a bit much, especially from a couple videos I have seen, but could be an option. These would help him greatly but would leave his drone rather worthless.

 

I admit I didn't read through all the suggestions on this thread, but here are some of mine:

Enforcer:
-Protect and Serve: While shielded, creatures cannot walk past you. The Enforcer essentially becomes a wall. Does not affect flying enemies.
-Shield Slam: When timed properly, SS can reflect enemy projectiles back at foes.

HAN-
It would be interesting if all of his attacks could be charged to be more powerful, like the Sniper's Steady Aim.
-HURT: Charging increases both damage and knockback.
-DRONE: Charging increases the speed of the drone projectile, the damage, and slightly increases the healing (so, if used out of combat it is a more effective recovery).
-FORCED-REASSEMBLY: Increases the damage, launch height, and slightly increases the hit radius.
-OVERCLOCK: Can't be charged, and while HAN-D is overclocking, he cannot charge any of his abilities. Essentially, switching out tactics and strength for a speedy rampage.

Sniper:
I love the idea of replacing Snipe with Steady Aim entirely and giving him another ability.
-New ability: Curare Blade
The Sniper slashes forward with a poison-laced machete. It inflicts a small amount of damage to enemies in front of the Sniper and causes them to take damage over time and be slowed greatly for the next 5 seconds or so.
Would combine very nicely as a Curare => Backflip => Steady Aim.

Miner:
-Drill Charge: I actually would prefer if Drill Charge couldn't be charged up and was instead an instant-launch skill that was stronger by default. It would lend to the Miner's feel of constant momentum.
-I think he should be able to move while making his basic attack. Same reason-- the Miner would feel better if he could always stay in motion.

Bandit:
I haven't given him enough of a fair shake, but so far he's my least favorite character. I don't understand what his niche is... it's not crowd control, it's not really single target take down, despite having the 600% attack. So, here's my proposal to change that.

-Lights Out: A complete change. This attack would do more damage versus enemies based on what % of their health they have lost. Attacking an enemy with full health would deal the same amount of damage as Blast, 150%. An enemy at almost 0% of their health would instead 10x that, 1500%, making it the most powerful attack in the game. However, this great damage would be offset with the fact that for most enemies, they'll be so close to death that it doesn't actually matter. The increase is designed so that Lights Out keeps its identity as a finishing move, while becoming a more valid attack once stronger enemies have started spawning with more health.

So, in short, Lights Out becomes exclusively a finishing move, as using it on a healthy enemy is ineffective. The primary strategy would be to try to whittle enemies down with his other attacks and start using Lights Out to execute and reset cooldowns to continue the finishing spree.

 

But that would ruin the Sniper's kiting ability. He'd no longer be able to Snipe during every jump since Steady Aim holds you in place. With Snipe you can keep your momentum as you shoot.

 

Agreed. There's no need to give the Sniper a melee attack and take away one of the fun things about him.

 

How about something like a grenade that doesn't do damage but freezes or slows enemies it hits for a short time?

 

You are suggesting something that will essentially guarantee 100% charged Steady Aim every shot, a built-in Crudely Drawn Buddy/Safeguard Lantern, this will make monsoon solo runs even bigger a joke for Sniper, which is not something he needs.

I think improved piercing on Steady Aim would be the most ideal adjustment for Sniper, it doesn't change the way he plays, it doesn't throw in new mechanics, all it does is give him better AoE, however unnecessary it is, and curb the biggest complaint regarding Sniper: supposed inability to deal with a crowd. That and an improvement to Spotter to give proximity more weight would honestly be all he needs.

 

Since I obviously don't play sniper neither well, nor enough, I think I'm going to just stop talking about him here, given how many people disagree with me.

 

I'd love to see some Sniper streams and whatnot just to see where exactly are people doing wrong with Sniper. There's gotta be a simple common mistake people are making with him to garner him such widespread negative opinions. There doesn't seem to be any in-betweens, you are either someone who thinks he is horrendously lacking and incapable of dealing with most situations, or someone who can beat solo Monsoon without breaking a sweat, the disparity is astounding.

 

I swear it's because people can't jump reload properly.

 

I do think that if Snipe was replaced with Steady Aim it wouldn't be hard to code it so just tapping the fire button is essentially the same as Snipe. I'm holding strong to this one, I definitely think they are redundant abilities-- especially because using Steady Aim then requires to use the same reload mechanic as Snipe and you can't use the Steady Aim button to reload.

Perhaps instead of a melee attack he could use an alternate shot type, such as a piercing, low-damage slowing bullet? I was just thinking a quick melee attack to better help Jar of Ants situations.

Alternately, do people think it would be interesting if he could use the button to swap between ammo types? Switching ammo would force him to reload but the next bullets would be of the new type?
-Piercing (Default, good for multiple enemies in a row)
-Incendiary (Explodes on the first target hit dealing AoE damage, drops fire, good for Jar of Ants)
-Poison (Doesn't pierce, but good for taking down single targets)

I would also love to see some skilled Sniper streams. I personally feel fine playing him, a bit boring compared to other classes, but I certainly don't feel like he's godly, especially when spawn rates become too harsh to properly space yourself.

 

This makes sense but I can't shake this feeling that the Sniper is going to be way too strong if given another skill. As of right now I believe that the problem with the Sniper is that they're not noob friendly like the Huntress or Commando. You actually have to learn timing and execution. If a change like this goes through and they make his mob clear any better I feel like in the right hands the Sniper will be probably be the undisputed fastest Monsoon runner, with only the Miner trailing behind them.

 

Eh, if they wanted to make him more noob friendly they'd probably just make him able to walk while reloading... That being said, he's not the only character that benefits from mastering jump timing with abilities, even if it looks a little silly. I definitely don't think he's designed to be noob friendly, and really you only need one or two.

It just seems a pity that he has redundant abilities when nobody else does. I do actually really like my ammo-switch idea, since it would be a mechanic unique to him and could help him adjust to less-than-ideal situations so he doesn't have to rely so heavily on drones for situations where kiting isn't an option.

 

Sniper.

End response.

I believe I removed SmokeScreen. It's been analyzed as too strong before and I have to admit it potentially is. There should be a different one called Freeze Cracker in the suggestions...

EDIT: Ohp, I forgot to add what it actually does in the quote box. Fixed. Also...

Let me be clear, again, because it seems people are taking away an overwhelmingly negative impression from my ranting.

I love the sniper. I can play him just fine. It's just that ONE situation (Jar of Ants) that completely ruins my game if I don't end up having an equip for it. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it just completely grates on my nerves and I wonder why the Sniper isn't equipped to deal with it.

Also it should be noted that it sounds like most people have DIFFERENT issues with the Sniper. Only myself and the few people that agree with me here in the thread note the Jar of Ants as his primary weakness. Other than that we have no issues with him.

And, again. I will not, nor will I EVER, accept Spawn Control as an excuse for the Sniper's inability to deal with a JoA. I mean, think about it. He's the only class that has to do it. THE ONLY ONE. Doesn't that tell you people anything? Doesn't it tell you that maybe Spawn Control isn't an intended strategy? Doesn't it tell you that maybe it's a LOOPHOLE? Loopholes are not part of standard gameplay. They're loopholes. I don't like having to abuse a loophole just to beat a game. I want to play it the way it was intended. And if you think Spawn Control is intended gameplay we're at an impasse and you need to just quit trying to convince me otherwise.