Race The problem with most suggestions- my two cents.

We have the right to criticize.

Criticizing is an action.

Words are loud when they are heard by many.

If a choice is defended by a vocal majority,this doesn't give any proof at all that this choice is the right one.

You don't need to be an artist to see if a picture is poorly drawn;and in the same effect,you don't need to "do better" to voice your opinion on something.

We do not all want to spend or waste time learning how to make sprites to voice our discontent or prove a point.Each one's their hobbies.I do art.Others do knitting.Some do spriting.I can still say I don't like a piece of knitting or spriting,and they can still say I cannot draw straight.

 

The problem though is that popular doesn't necessarily equal good, and that everyone has different idea of good.(For instance if there's a race that fans of x topic like and they make that race popular even if no one else likes it) And the point of this post was to address the dozens of races that show up on this forum that are essentially copies of each other. Even if this theoretical race was to get popular, there'd probably be just as many furry races as there was to begin with anyway :/

 

No. I don't think you understand what the issue is here. The issue IS that there are a lot of suggestions that are poorly designed and written. People are trying to address this issue and fix it by giving criticism and cc to the current suggestions. Problem is, people are either blatantly ignoring said criticism, or are throwing a massive hissy fit. Stubs with little to no useful information are being added, and people are still pushing for bland and uninteresting animals on two legs, despite suggestions and threads on how to write/create better race suggestions.

And telling people to 'do better' is ridiculous. Not everyone is gifted in writing or drawing. This does not, however, mean they cannot tell a decent race suggestion from a poor one and do not have a right to say anything. It's equivalent to telling a customer at a restaurant that they can't complain that their meal is bad, simply because they cannot cook and are not a certified chef. If the meal is under cooked or burnt, the customer has a right to lodge a complaint. Same goes for racial suggestions.

 

(ignoring most everything after original post) I agree that the races need to be more alien in appearances. That's the reason why I absolutely love the Avali race, they even break out of the generic humanoid anatomy that all other races have (which, sadly, is probably the reason they will never get added). The reason they are so popular is because they are so different. we need that thing that makes a race stand out, make people fall in love with them

 

You still haven't understood my point that someone doesn't NEED to post a suggestion of their own to have a valid argument against someone else's suggestion. I point out things that have to do with suggestions for another race. They either fix the problem, or never update it and the thread crashes and burns under the weight of its own mediocrity and negative feedback.

Uhm, no. If a bad writer is a bad writer and someone has pointed out what's wrong with it, then they have a chance to fix it, and BECOME a better writer. If you have the mindset that people cannot improve and fix the issue, then you are probably under the mistaken impression that the devs of starbound cannot make a better game merely because people have found bugs in it or have said something is broken.

Look at alien races from a majority of more popular games. They're not just animals on legs now are they? They have distinct features that estrange them from humans. Even the bipedal races of mass effect are bizzare and have a cultural and societal structure of their own. And if you really stop and think hard about it, while aliens that are bipedal might be a strong possibility in space, with the plethora of planets that exist and the different environments, it's unlikely that they will be literal animals with human hands and feet. A creature does not have to be a quadruped or stand on more than two legs or no legs in order to have an 'alien design', but it DOES have to look different than carbon copy of an earth-creature.

Again, I'm gonna use the customer to chef analogy. And popular does not = good. The OP probably stopped updating his thread because he didn't feel like it was worth it to fight with the constant undertow of bad suggestions.
Also, stop and think about how many people visit the suggestions thread to how many that do not. Now divide that again by how many people like a suggestion vs how many that dislike it. It's a small number isn't it? Now if you say only people who like something should comment on a thread, then OF COURSE IT'S GOING TO SEEM POPULAR! But because you have already barred everyone who wants to voice dissapproval, how will we ever KNOW it's bad?!

No, threads like this are meant to enlighten people and cause them to stop and THINK about their suggestion before they post it. Therefore, threads like this SERVE a purpose and are more useful because they break down the components of what makes a good suggestion and puts them in plain sight, instead of forcing someone to sift through a good suggestion and guess at it. It allows them to go back and elaborate their suggestion based on a criteria in order to HELP THEM fix the problems so they won't get as much negative feedback initially, and allows people to better accept them initially. What's better, people saying they hate it and leaving because it was really poorly done, or people saying they're interested, but would like to see a little more tweaking before they back the suggestion? The latter, of course.

Also, there are PLENTY of good suggestions on this thread for people to goo off of, the problem is that they are constantly being buried under the bad ones. People can't be inspired if their inspiration source is being covered in sparkle furry mary sue clutter.

 

I can give a perfect example of a good thread, Suika Ibuki's Anodynes are a shining example, and this lead to Bietol's Novakids, which have been confirmed.
Now you said that people should post their own suggestions to give a better example of what to do for a good suggestion. Yet we have good examples of alien race suggestions that people want, and yet people are still writing and making bad suggestions... now why is that?

Well you should have said so before, because your previous statements have alluded to "Don't like it, make a new suggestion or stay quiet."

I never said I was anti-furry, I said a lot of furry suggestions are lacking creativity. There's a difference. Assuming that I dislike a furry suggestion because I'm somehow biased against furries is silly.

Only IF the person is biased. Stating what is wrong with a suggestion is not being biased.
And biased=biased? Great example...

That's what we've been doing and trying to address.

Fair point, but people are still gonna have to vouch for mod support of their race to modders. Which still requires people to voice their opinion on race suggestion threads.

 

You know I have a great way to see if a design is alien or just pretending to be.



"Can you refer to it as an earthly animal?"


If yes,then it's not alien.

Which is the case for about 80% of things here.

 

First I'm just gonna start this response off by saying that I always hated the " If you don't like my work then let's see you do better" mindset because it assumes that the person saying something has the nessisary tools or skills to do so and kind of avoids critism.

You start off by saying that bad posts don't affect me, and technically you are correct. But I apologize if maybe it's a bit unreasonable to be tired of seeing the same stuff over and over. I have literally seen race suggestions on the same page with the same name that both make similar mistakes. If the poll at the top is any indication a majority of the people here are too.

You then go on to say that I can make a suggestion anytime I want if I want an alien race. (And in fact , I have been!) but then you say that I haven't because I'm afraid of critism....? While you are a certified internet arm-chair psychologist I can't help but notice you don't know what you're talking about. And just to make things clear I never said that alien races were inherently better than furry races. All l was saying was that a more alien design was more interesting in my opinion. Sorry if my tone implied otherwise.

And for this next part, I'm sorry that I worded my sentence so badly. The point I was trying to express wasn't that a popular idea was unanimous, I was tying to say that something could become very popular due to pandering to a specific type of people yet be bad to just as many if not more people, so the popularity wouldn't be all that important seeing how it's hated more than liked. (Granted the point I was trying to make wasn't a very good one but I thought I'd clarify)

After telling me about how if the OP can't have any personal preferences or opinions on race suggestion without making his own you then enlighten me on how I feel about furries. I actually quite like furries, I have absolutely nothing against them and at one point I actually was a furry. And you might be surprised but I don't resent them either. I'm perfectly fine with people liking what they like. Most of the time whenever I comment on a furry suggestion that needs improvments I don't mention the fact that they're animals as a flaw because I don't like it when people do that. But even if I were to resent them I wouldn't be busy for long seeing as most furry suggestions aren't very popular. Now there are exceptions to the rule like the really good Delsuti race, but generally speaking the average one paragraph long space wolf thread isn't something the average person will be envious of.

And I think that maybe I've been to harsh on this thread because I don't think this. My actual opinion would be that furry races could be more creative, I don't think they're not creative at all. So no you are not right. And I'm sorry but I don't agree with your next point. Like Mono said it doesn't take beeing chef for someone to complain about burnt food. Sure that person may not be able to make grilled chese but they still have a right to say something. And if someone thinks you need to have a suggestion to say anything about suggestions does this also include praise? Does that OP need to make sure that person's culture section is in check before they can compliment thier culture section? If the OP dislikes everyone's suggestions can they just decide that since no one is properly certified they won't listen to criticism? If the critism is completely logical,well thought out and polite will you not think anything of it since the person is currently in school and doesn't have as much free time as you?

This next part you monolouge for a bit about how you can't change destiny and that people keep the same level of skill in something for thier entire life. Obviously advice has no impact on people and talentless hacks like me should be quiet and sit in the corner until we become useful. There are plenty of good suggestions out there, the Novakids for instance are a shining example of creativity. But somehow I can't help but notice that despite that people still make bad races anyway......

[Sorry about the snarky tone this response has, I began writing this in a foul mood, just know that I understand that some of the stuff I said was uncalled for and that I don't really mean it]

 

Alien means "not from here".

Most races that are similar to real life animals in suggestions have their own home planet or place of origin that's different from other races in Starbound which makes them "alien" to the other races.

 

Do you realize you just contradicted yourself over something that doesn't make sense here.

 

No it makes perfect sense.

They are aliens as with every race including humans.

You need to word what you said properly. What you should of said was alien in appearance.

 

No,I don't need to word anything,YOU need to read what other people write before awnsering to it.


***********************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Can you refer to it as an earthly animal?"

"Can you refer to it as an earthly animal?"

"Can you refer to it as an earthly animal?"

"Can you refer to it as an earthly animal?"

"Can you refer to it as an earthly animal?"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
**********************

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


So this time I'll be sure you see well.

Let's say I take a hedgehog,and I throw him on Mars.

He'll be a martian.




But he won't be an alien.

Because hedgehogs are from here.No matter how hard I claim it or how many legs he grew up.



Hedgehogs



Here




Not there

 

Lore for a hedgehog race would state otherwise, negating your point as you don't have authority on that lore.

I expect you not to flame me for stating a fact. No matter how horrible the race, the creator determines the lore.

 

Oh yeah


The whole



ITS SAID IN THE BOOK SO ITS TOTALLY TRUE AND LEGIT


amirite?


Hey that gave me inspiration to do my own thread!


"Meet the Blonics!

The blonics are a race of hedgehogs not-hedgehogs-on-legs that could be physically described as hedgehogs on legs although they are not hedgehogs on legs.

They are totally alien and come from their own original planet (do not steal),planet Dirt.


Any correlation with the hedgehogs from planet Earth would be totally unintended;but in fact,they are so alien,you don't have to worry about that.

Because we say so.


They're so alien,we don't really care about what you think,we said they are alien so they are.

Also I say Elvis Presley is still alive somewhere in Antartica so it's true as well.And I am totally a fox.Because I say so,and what I think is better that what you think,and I don't care if you think that I don't look like a fox I decided I am fox so I am fox now fuck you I'm a fox."




So what do you think pretty good huh : D

It's so good in fact I think the mods will pin it as a model suggestion thread.Each time you'll tell me anything about races I'll tell you I wrote this and I'll direct you to it so you can learn from me.


Cause I'm great.Cause I'm a fox.

 

You literally just refuted your own argument about making a good race suggestion as an example to show people how to do it. If they're not gonna read it to make a better one, then that means people who make good suggestions as an example are wasting their time trying to help others by doing so.

You seem to be under the assumption that those here who are voicing dislike furry threads only critique furry race threads. Therfore, you cannot say they are biased if you have no proof that they do so.
And again, NOBODY HAS TO CONTRIBUTE A DESIGN TO HAVE A VALID ARGUMENT. HAVING A SUGGESTION DOESN'T MAKE YOU NON-BIASED EITHER. NOT HAVING A SUGGESTION THREAD DOESN'T MAKE YOU BIASED AS WELL.

So if that's the case, your statement about supporting a thread by telling them how to fix it would be useless as well. (Because apparently people can't change and are gonna post bad stuff and crash and burn. right?)

No, it still stands because even if no more races are going to be added to the game officially, people still need to impress the modders to make mods of their race. Modders aren't going to waste their time making a mod that they don't like or the community doesn't want.

Not true, lore was written in order to explain elements of the game that exist. Lore explains the reasoning behind the bosses existence, the behavior of races, and the hostility of certain npcs. It gives us a glimpse into why things are the way they are. Now of course we can do without the lore to play the game, but it's less interesting to play a game that has all these things going on in the background and we're never told why that it. If Starbound were like Terraria where history was never important or added from the beginning, ok. But codexes and lore are a part of Starbound's overall feel. Therefore it's expect of people suggesting a race to provide this background.

But you stated before that if an idea is bad, it's gonna fail regardless of our input. If so, it doesn't matter how many times they bump or revise.
And we've stated before, threads like this ARE useful. It HAS helped people suggest new races that are better and more well thought out.

How do you know? Can you tell that a person critiquing a thread is an excellent storyteller and artist? No, you can't. You missed the entire point that a person does not NEED to be either of these in order to bring an issue to light. And again, it's not the suggester's job to fix a broken suggestion.

 

Exactly.