Race The problem with most suggestions- my two cents.

Discussion in 'NPCs and Creatures' started by Ty525, Dec 22, 2013.


More racial suggestions need to be more creative and all around alien.

  1. I agree

    75 vote(s)
  2. I disagree (Please explain why in a response)

    9 vote(s)
  1. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    Actually you all seem to be misunderstanding a lot.
    My argument for visuals is quite different.

    I was talking about Lore vrs Visuals. - My point being Lore doesn't matter as much as published visuals- people will play the race regardless of how bad the lore written for the race is. Lore is simply a cherry on top, but not the main dish - when it comes to a race.

    No what I said - people who post bad suggestions are not going to look for good examples.
    Just as they are not going to bother to search if a similar race exists in the first place.

    I am not talking about Retro - vrs modern.
    I am talking about Good vrs Bad. One of the two is clearly better then the other. Both are competing for the same position. If it was a game based on Worms - with that graphics it would fit right now. But, it is not. And such a race wouldn't gain traction. Design elements are very important when it comes to garnering popularity when it comes to custom races.

    There are the few who simply want to write something for the sake of writing.. They honestly don't want to put in any effort to see it pushed through.

    Then there are those who write a detailed description of what they would like to see. They might not be artists, but they go the extra mile and at least search for images of what they could possibly look like at least.

    Then there are the actual people who try and learn to mod and contribute to creating their race. Instead of completely relying on other people.

    So yes - there are quite a few people who post idea's and concept - for more of a meaningless sake. May not be under the notion of "wasting" peoples time. But it is in the end a waste of people's time.

    Well - from the rest of your understandings - I am not surprised.
    Essentially It means - Everyone is capable of criticizing - they are also equally capable of suggesting a race that fits into their own MO.
  2. Monochromegoggles

    Monochromegoggles Phantasmal Quasar

    Have a gander at a race like the Volans or the Oscura, they're some pretty odd races that are written rather well. This thread has a number of good races that are quite interesting.
    There have been a few good animal-based races as well, such as the Marli and the Zahair. Though I still think these two could use just use a tad more tweaking to make them better, but they're far better examples of a race that is themed around a recognizable genus, as you can tell a good amount of thought and effort has gone into them.
    cyberspyXD and Jonesy like this.
  3. cyberspyXD

    cyberspyXD Tiy's Beard


    Well now that things are getting constructive I'm going to take a break.

    G'night everyone. Lets all hope for more discussion instead of warfare.
    Jonesy and Monochromegoggles like this.
  4. Peachy

    Peachy Star Wrangler

    I don't agree. If the writing is absolutely awful then it's not the race that people like, it's the art. The race is a combination of culture, history, appearance ect. If the only good thing about a race is it's looks then people might as well mod stuff from people's deviantart galleries because thier suggestion is near worthless. Lore gives the personality to a race, without it all of starbound's races would just be generic aliens. In my opinion the lore of starbound's races are what make them interesting.
    Monochromegoggles likes this.
  5. Monochromegoggles

    Monochromegoggles Phantasmal Quasar

    And again, every thread that I've seen mention a race provide visuals has had at least one person ask for more info and lore if the info isn't already there.

    Then why did you state before that people needed a role model of a good race if you turn around and say they're gonna disregard it anyway?! make up your mind!
    Seriously, by your logic, none of this will be useful because people are going to disregard it.
    Which has been proven false because again, there have been people who have used this thread to improve.

    And I'm saying, it doesn't matter if the sprites and visuals are bad, because if the idea is really that good and is described well enough, someone else is going to pick up the slack. You are literally discouraging people from posting with this statement because you're arguing that if they're a bad artist, their idea is bad, which is not true.
    I've seen races with bad sprites initially that pick up and have someone else help them out. It's proof that you don't have to be a master to know what you're doing.
    Again, visuals are not everything. But visuals are not the key point of this thread, creativity is.

    Ok, so you're gonna ignore the fact that not everyone who makes a darn good suggestion has the time to learn how to mod their race. So on top of being forced to learn how to sprite and learn how to write by bumbling over their mistakes in a thread because CC is barred because it's useless, now they have to learn how to mod too!

    How is it meaningless? They wanted to see if people will support their idea by posting it. If it's a waste of everyone's time, that was not their intention, so they need to FIX IT.
    Then people are going to suggest a change via cc and via threads like this, which are ALSO SUGGESTIONS. You say people have a right to suggest, and yet turn around and say threads like these, which are suggestions, serve no purpose.
    See? right there. Right there you just argued against people making suggestions on how to do better.
  6. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    A fair point.
    But there is a big difference between a well thought out suggestion
    And a race which has been completed and available for download. One remains on paper - while the other can exist without the other.
    It doesn't matter how good the lore is if it never gets made into a mod.
    Nor does it matter if the the lore is great with bad sprites - people when they download it are still not going to choose bad sprites over - one with good sprites and with little to no lore. Many of the race mods only have super ficial lore attached. Yet are still popular - downloaded - and have a working prototype.

    Suggestions will remain suggestions untill some one takes it under their wings.

    I didn't. I am saying one is more useful then the other.
    Bad races can be ignored. If people want to see a good example they can.
    But a good race suggestion - will always be a good race suggestion it acts as both a template for others to create their own. As well as its own point of discussion. Hence serving multiple purposes.

    From all I saw - the only person was Nidor.
    has majority of the new threads changed? Since the start of this thread?

    That is absolutetly what I am not saying.
    I am talking about a finished product. -
    If they are not an artist - they can very well search the web for something that is close to what they wish.
    But my point is they need to first show effort in doing so. I am not going to point out specific threads - but I have seen posts which go along the lines of

    "Futuristic Race which are nearly extinct" Custom guns \ ship \ meele weapons.
    Which is their description of their marvellous race. Such threads are pointless beyond imagination.

    Not what I am saying - If they are incapable of making their own race. They need to put in a shiet load of more effort to compensate for that fact. I will not accept half hearted attempts as suggestions as viable recourse of putting out an idea. I only respect those who give a 110% - fully think out their idea, then post it.
    If they can't make their own Art. -- Search google images for something similar. The head of "x" the body of "y" etc. But it is the effort they put into it which I grade the potential of the race. Not the quality of their writing.
    -- The only point I am making is Being a spriter means your race has a much much higher chance of actually being a mod. As opposed to simply being a writer or "idea's" man \ woman.

    No - You seem to have confused the entire argument from the beganning.

    I am not against making suggestions - I am against only a simple thing from the start.
    "Saying a Race is not Creative" because it does not fit into the ideal specification of an "Alien Race"

    So let me make a few points clear
    1. Badly written races - Can be ignored. No need to bother giving them a 2nd look. When I say badly written, I am not talking about poor english. I am talking about

    This is an actual pitch some one made for a new race.

    2. The reason I stress on Graphics more then anything else.
    A spriter can make a new race independently of anyone else. They don't even need a coder as they can use a template mod to quickly pick up what few lines that are required to change to be put into the game. Which means It has a mucher higher probability of moving from Suggestion to Conception. Then anything else
    Jonesy likes this.
  7. Monochromegoggles

    Monochromegoggles Phantasmal Quasar

    True, but if a person cannot make the sprites or decent art, then by your logic, their race is doomed to failure even if they did their best.
    You again rule out the possibility that the person simply cannot create the mod, in which case they need to persuade someone else to help them make it. But I guess if they can't get someone to help them, they failed too huh? Despite them doing everything in their field of expertise.
    Google searching and making a Frankenstein monster out of images is a terrible idea. I can do that in a matter of moments but it would still look awful.
    Also, not everyone has the knowledge or the programs available to do that. This puts them back at square one where their only solution if to write.
    And now you're automatically ruling people out who cannot sprite again, and ignoring the point I made that someone else can very well help them if the op gives a decent description.

    Let's look back at the original post to see what the point of this thread was. (Which you still refuse to acknowledge)
    The point to this thread was to encourage people to take a more inspired approach to their race other than putting an animal on two legs.

    You on the other hand, assume that it's discouraging people from posting altogether if the suggestion they have is poorly executed. You go about saying people are gonna post what they're going to post and that's ok. Yet you base it on things such as sprite work. And you turn about again saying posts with no art are a waste of time and are inferior to a post with art, despite evidence that the person who wrote the thread did what they could to describe the race in words and is currently hoping someone will help them come up with images.
    But you say if they google search images to give an example, that's fine.

    Yet that conflicts with the OP that the races need to be better constructed and not just a picture of a dog with a description underneath that fills in the blanks.
    Then you say as long as they tried 110%, it was not a wasted effort, but turn about AGAIN to say if it's not a mod they wasted their time, and a mod with bad sprites is going to be picked over a mod with better sprites. Despite stating that not everyone can sprite and mod, you continue on with this.

    What would you have then DO if they simply cannot DO? If they can't sprite, frankenstine a picture. If you cannot frankenstine a picture, write. If you can't write, collaborate.

    Give SOLUTIONS to this problem! Don't stomp about and say if it's not a mod, it's a bad idea and a waste of time.
    The people here that have sided with the OP have been trying to produce less washed-up results by giving suggestions and pointing out flaws in races. Some have even aided in supporting suggestions that lacked the above qualities.
  8. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    There is a reason I am making my point in the way I have.
    I am looking at it from the angle - What will the highest likelihood of being converted from a Suggestion to a Mod.

    So yes - Unfortunately it does require you to either know - or be a sprite artist or be one your your self. There is no escaping around that fact. Now the sad truth is - the sprite work for the characters require a lot of effort and time. Which very well means unless you show dedication to your thread, you probably will not inspire an artist enough to make you a complete sprite sheet.

    The 2nd part is dedication to seeing it through - I do remember sometime back mentioning people do not have the time to learn a language to make a mod. This is a misconception. JSON is not a language which requires to be learned. It is 95% based on common sense, 5% based on rules. So if the Mod author does not even have the dedication enough to put even a little effort to put some one else's submitted art work into code. Well - it really shows you it was just a half hearted attempt in the first place.

    This is the main reason why you have a 133 pages with sugestions with about 20 results each - which makes a grand total of 2660.
    Lets say 60% were not about races - that still leaves 1064 races suggested. But only a 103 race mods. Which is about 10% coming to fruition.


    Being "more alien" doesn't improve your chances one bit. More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals.
    Hence it doesn't matter if its Alien - Animal - Inbetween.
    It really comes down to how much effort the Author is willing to put in.
  9. AldoKaido

    AldoKaido Starship Captain

    So you're basically saying that because it's a fandom then it's right.

  10. cyberspyXD

    cyberspyXD Tiy's Beard

    Actually he never said that at all. The part you quoted shows nothing like that at all either.
  11. AldoKaido

    AldoKaido Starship Captain

    "More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals."

    "More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals."
    "More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals."
    "More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals."
    "More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals."
    "More Alien is a personal preference of a few individuals."

    No it's not.

    Alien is alien.It's not if you decide if it is or not.It's just alien.

    Sci-fi = aliens.
  12. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    Well you are always free to invent your own language to define Alien as you please.
    cyberspyXD likes this.
  13. cyberspyXD

    cyberspyXD Tiy's Beard

    Of course more alien looking is a personal preference. Everyone has personal preferences and the one you hold is not above all others.
    The | Suit likes this.
  14. AldoKaido

    AldoKaido Starship Captain

    Now that's just ridiculous.

    It's me who's inventing the language now.


    No seriously xD

  15. cyberspyXD

    cyberspyXD Tiy's Beard

    Yeah. It's funny for me too. Opposite for your reason though.
    The | Suit likes this.
  16. Monochromegoggles

    Monochromegoggles Phantasmal Quasar

    Alright then, I'll just got to every suggestion that's text only and tell the person that their idea is a waste of space and time and that they'll never be successful because they're not proficient at making concept art or sprites.
    Great idea, that contributes SO MUCH to the community and aspiring modders, let's just shoot down their dreams because THAT'S real productive.

    And yet you have the gall to call this thread useless... how shameful

    Now can we get back on track and start making actual suggestions on how to be more creative race instead of trying to take the moral high ground only to dash everyone's hopes into the dirt?

    How about we first address the issue of the alien 'definition' versus aliens in current fiction in games , movies and books, and how to apply it to what is found into suggestions today?
    Surely there must be an easier way to help posters create a suggestion other than telling them to take their favorite animal and slap a psudo-culture onto it. Perhaps we can work out a useful model to assist them in creating some truly unique races visually and contextually via lore.
  17. cyberspyXD

    cyberspyXD Tiy's Beard

    I have been dodging the definition for a while because of one party among us who cant be rational like everyone else. But your right on the issue of definition.

    Perhaps we should make a model. If you want to collaborate on this send me a PM and we can set up a doc. Having differing but similar opinions should help in keeping the guide level.
  18. AldoKaido

    AldoKaido Starship Captain

    You mean the "party" that keeps contradicting itself,going back on forth?

    Well that can't be me.

    Because I'm not taking any kind of stupid party.I'm not taking any bias.I'm taking a stance depending what should be better for everything on everyone,I don't do that because I follow a stupid trend.

    I would argue again;but what's the point?Talking with people that want to argue over the fact that a word would mean whatever the user decides for it,it won't get me anywhere.
  19. cyberspyXD

    cyberspyXD Tiy's Beard

    You don't dictate what is better for everyone else. If you argue rationally perhaps others will take your views more seriously but right now to me it's presented as you hate everything that's not alien.

    So instead of fluffing up your post with needless comments actually state what you want to say.
    The | Suit likes this.
  20. Monochromegoggles

    Monochromegoggles Phantasmal Quasar

    Sounds good! I'll get on that! Feel free to drop me a reminder in a pm If I don't respond for a day or so, as I have a lot of assignments to juggle, it's hard to remember side projects.

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