Hello everyone, its me, Dynafols aka TheGamingRAM. I have been playing some Harvest Moon and Rune Factory games recently, and I would like to be able to offer some advice/tips on some ideas and potentially good design choices. Note I have not played all of the Harvest Moon games but I have do my experiences with them. This thread for coming up with ideas and thoughts and other tips that we have learned from Harvest Moon games that help with design choices that ConcernedApe may be willing to take a look at. (I honestly did not know whether or not put this in the General Discussion forums or the Suggestion forums as this covers many areas). If any of you guys have played some Harvest Moon, please tell me about your experiences with them and what you have enjoyed/disliked/interested in during your experiences. Good Things: -Nicknames: In HM: A New Beginning, when you start to date an NPC, you are given a chance to "change" your name for the woman or man you are dating only. This chance is given again when you marry your spouse (except for only 1 NPC specifically). - Archaeology: I remember many years ago when I played Harvest Moon A Wonderful Life there was a small archaeology site where you could dig up/pick up a few little things here and there. The main purpose of this was to raise love points with one of the three bachelorettes, who would move away the following year unless you married her. I would like it if I could dig up bones, cause you know.... having a T-Rex skeleton in your house is cool... - Cross breeding animals- "I absolutely loved this function on HM A Wonderful Life. I could buy a really expensive bull and breed him with my low quality cows and I usually lucked out and got a high quality calf. I really wish HM had expanded on that feature, so that your animals would truly turn out random and have different strengths and weaknesses. EX: Cross bull A, which matures faster, with cow B, which gives more milk, and get a totally new breed of calf C. The new calf will have a visual appearance that is a combination of both parents and it has a chance of maturing more quickly and being a heavy milk producer(if female). However, it may also inherit the poor traits from its parents (ex: can't tolerate heat or cold well, matures slowly, shorter lifespan, prone to disease, etc...). I would love to see random coat patterns generated from a combination of 2 different coat colors too." - pinkcatmint Bad Things: -Cheap Progression: While playing Harvest Moon: A New Beginning, one of the things that really, I mean just really ticked me off was the amount of cheap progression the game had. What I mean by this is that in order reach certain stages of town development, you are required to complete certain tasks. With this is though a number of them are season locked, meaning you can only progress during a specific season of the year. Rune Factory 1 had this same problem, I have to wait till WINTER to get to the next dungeon because the game says so, and Spring just ended for me! An example from HM:ANB is that you are required to produce and ship out 10 jars of honey. By the time you are given this requirement, it is early summer... thing is though you need honeycombs and you can only get honeycombs during Spring and Fall! Naturally I just sold everything that I didn't need, and there was NO hint or indication even suggesting that I might need some honeycombs during Spring, so I just sold them for a quick buck. There is a requirement demanding you need weeds, yes seriously, weeds, to make something. Who the hell stores away weeds?! "O I found a weed, I better keep it, I might need it for something". Another issue I really had with cheap progression were some contest specific reward crops, well, not exactly but you're gonna have to wait a whole year to progress then! By the time Winter began or Fall was ending of year 1, I was given another task, ship 30 yams... Wanna know when Yams become available? Fall of Year 2! Seriously! There is 1 way to avoid this, okay 2 ways, and that is winning a very specific contest for a very specific tier to get Yam seeds, and I could not win for the life of me, so now I have to wait a whole ingame year just to progress a bit more. The only 1 other way to get around this is to have a friend who happens to own the game, to trade the seeds or crop over to you. Cheap progression in a video game that is suppose to be relaxing just ticks me off. Somewhere in the Middle: -Gifts: Gifts were something always kind of made me scratch my head at times. I wondered "Why the heck is this person being OK with me giving them the exact same thing every single day?" As well as another thing that made me say "I HAVE GIVEN YOU OVER A HUNDRED GIFTS AND YOU CAN'T EVEN RETURN THE FAVOR?!" So the idea is that perhaps some NPCs will be more likely to give you more stuff, some people will feel uncomfortable with you giving them the same thing every day, and perhaps some people will only accept your gifts when you have reached a certain point in friendship with them. -Presents- "Gift giving is a nice way to make friends with your neighbors, but it shouldn't be the only way to make friends. Maybe you can help them with a certain task to raise friendship points or something. Plus, HM always requires so damn many gifts to get someone to like you. I always felt like I had no time to do anything after I took care of my farm work, then talked to and gave gifts to all the stupid villagers. Frustrating...." - pinkcatmint - Animal realism- "HM A Wonderful Life was also the only HM game that had realistic animal development. You had to have a chicken AND a rooster to get fertilized eggs, you had to have a cow AND a bull to make baby calves. I'm sure there is a whole generation of kids out there that think that chickens magically produce fertilized eggs and can infinitely hatch out baby chicks. And cow miracle potion? WTF? "I will sprinkle this magic potion on you, Ms. Cow, and you will get pregnant." Not to mention the fact that most HM cows start producing milk as soon as they are adults and they NEVER STOP. I actually know people who think cows produce milk without any of that annoying "getting pregnant" stuff. At least AWL covered that situation realistically too. Cow gets pregnant, gives birth to calf, starts producing milk, can be milked for X amount of time, then stops producing until you breed her again. The whole system doesn't have to be horribly complicated, but it should at least be more realistic and use basic biology." - pinkcatmint - Characters- "Please for the love of God have some interesting characters and marriage candidates. HM seems to be stuck in a rut lately. The bachelors and bachelorettes are obnoxious and self-centered or else they look like they are 10 years old. I am currently playing ANB as a boy because I was so disappointed in the bachelor choices. I would really like to see some older marriage candidates too. I am an older gamer (41) and there are lots of older HM characters that I would like to marry, but they are not marriage candidates. A bit more racial variety would be nice too." - pinkcatmint Things we just might want: -Bacon -Trees- "HM has covered a lot of the basic fruit trees just fine (cherry, apple, etc...) so it would be cool to see a few new things. I wonder if we could have avocado trees? Then you could make guacamole recipes! Olive trees would be interesting too. Maybe you could press your own olive oil with a special "maker" machine. I'm glad the more recent HM games added different varieties of tea trees. I thought that was a really nice addition, especially since a lot of characters like tea. It would be awesome if you could breed your own varieties of tea with special health or stamina boosting effects. Another option would be a tea miller machine that lets you combine different varieties of teas with different flowers and herbs to make teas that boost energy (high caffeine) or boost health (high antioxidants or vitamin C). The teas could be used to stay up all night without getting tired or give you a health boost so you can work in the rain without getting sick." - pinkcatmint I will continue editing and adding more things to the list later on, so tell me what you liked/disliked about certain harvest moon games or similar games you may have played that you would like to be addressed in Stardew Valley.
O yea, I remember that... that even furthers the point. I have to question why I even bother farming at times... I remember there were times when I tried to get a honeycomb over Wi-Fi, like 20 bloody times, no luck. Its all good for milk and wool. I find the Wi-Fi kind of game breaking at parts, mainly in terms of milk, wool, and money, but its very rare, and I mean very rare for it to help further the development of the time... And I'll be honest, should this type of Wi-Fi be in the game at all? By the way, what were your experiences with harvest moon games? What have you liked/disliked?
What are your opinions on rune factory , i was looking in too that game earlier cause i play alot of harvest moon games but i dont know if they are in the same category. Also you are defiantly right on the gifting parts you do get quite bored of that once you know what to give the,.
I am currently playing the first Rune Factory for the DS, and I am currently enjoying myself. What can I say about Rune Factory... its like Harvest Moon, with swords, and magic, and monsters, and slave labor., monsters can work for you. In order to progress through this game, you need to travel through a number of various dungeons to progress the story. You start off by meeting a girl named Mist, and when you request food, she gives you a cheap hoe (theres a joke in there), when you request water, she gives you a watering can and a run down farm.... in other words she makes you her slave (Okay not really, but she IS the only person in the whole village who doesn't have a job, so that might say something...). Combat is rather simple in this game, the best weapon is the 1 hand sword, as you can quickly hit a monster, back away, and repeat. Some monsters and mainly bosses tend to get a bit trickier as the game goes on however. In this game there is a energy of some sorts known as "Rune Points". When you run out of rune points you begin to take damage when you try to do something. As you level up, you use less of your rune points in that specific skill. Other ways to avoid this are collecting rune energy, when are spawned when you successfully grow a set of 3 x 3 crops. This is where the whole "Rune Factory" part of the game comes into account. When you tackle dungeons, your rune points will drop rather quickly, so you need to be able to get rune points so you don't die. The best way to do this is to create gardens inside, yes, inside of the dungeons. The interesting thing about dungeons is that they each have their own seasons, so you can make almost whatever crop you want if you have access to the right dungeon. Theres a lot to talk about... so I'll shorten this. There are 10 bachelorettes, 1 is impossible to get unless you have a friend who owns the game. Some are harder to get and 1 will only like you if you talk to her only and not give any gifts to her, just talk. Proposing is unique as each girl will only marry you if you have both 10 love points, and complete a unique side quest for them (like collect a rare stone or something). Farming actually helps you, with both getting you rune energy as well as money, which you need to buy various things, like new gear for the next dungeon. Theres mining and wood chopping. There are some actual side quests and stories for the nonmarriable npcs. Upgrading your house can actually be a challenge (its not just have a ton of money). Your wife won't get pregnant, the baby will just... show up after so many days.... You can enslave some monsters to work the field for you, even some will fight for you. You can sell your stuff straight up to other NPCs, not having to ship them at all if you don't want to.... However, shipping things can land you some more money based on the level of the items, where shops don't care about level as much.
Thanks for the detailed guide and quick response! . wow jeesh seems better than i taught,and now when i think about it i heard they were going to release a fourth one in the US and EU where the japanese has come out but its still not translated so i will be looking forward to that. Not to bother you anymore but do you think you need to follow the series to get a hang of it. For example you cant jump in to the 3rd one without playing the 1st or you will be clueless on what to do ?.
Well I've only played the first one, and I have Rune Factory 2 and Frontier waiting for me. From what I heard and the research I done, Rune Factory Frontier is a sequel to RF 1. But most if not all of the games have their own stories. I would consider going in order as the mechanics and gameplay may be ironed out and improved on as the series goes on (I don't know for sure, as I'm currently playing RF1). You may not be able to go back and play the old ones if the newer ones are just plain better. If the newer ones are better, then the older ones may be less desirable to play. Its like playing a retro game, you may like it as much because you're experiences with the newer ones, but if the retro game is what you play first, it will be more bearable. If you're worried about not understanding the games, they all have the most basic of Harvest Moon formulas. Most games won't land you deserted completely clueless, I can't say that for all games, but you'll get a fair idea of what to do rather quickly. Remember the title "Rune Factory: A Fantasy Harvest Moon", if you understand the Harvest Moon concept, you should be okay.
I totally agree with you on the cheap progression in some of the Harvest Moon games. In some of the Rune Factory games, I had conquered the dungeons and was ready to move on, but NOPE! you have to wait until a specific season for that to be unlocked. Jerks! People should be allowed to progress at the speed they want. They shouldn't have to sit around twiddling their thumbs because of a certain requirement. I lucked out on HM ANB because, right after I bought the game, I ended up being really busy and couldn't play for a few months. By the time I got around to playing, the forums were full of warnings about what to save, etc... I didn't know about the yam requirement and them being available only in year 2 or you have to win them. I'm pretty obsessive about winning all the contests, so I will do my best to win yam seeds and avoid the long wait until Fall year 2. Here are my tips from Harvest Moon games: Presents- Gift giving is a nice way to make friends with your neighbors, but it shouldn't be the only way to make friends. Maybe you can help them with a certain task to raise friendship points or something. Plus, HM always requires so damn many gifts to get someone to like you. I always felt like I had no time to do anything after I took care of my farm work, then talked to and gave gifts to all the stupid villagers. Frustrating.... Characters- Please for the love of God have some interesting characters and marriage candidates. HM seems to be stuck in a rut lately. The bachelors and bachelorettes are obnoxious and self-centered or else they look like they are 10 years old. I am currently playing ANB as a boy because I was so disappointed in the bachelor choices. I would really like to see some older marriage candidates too. I am an older gamer (41) and there are lots of older HM characters that I would like to marry, but they are not marriage candidates. A bit more racial variety would be nice too. Trees- HM has covered a lot of the basic fruit trees just fine (cherry, apple, etc...) so it would be cool to see a few new things. I wonder if we could have avocado trees? Then you could make guacamole recipes! Olive trees would be interesting too. Maybe you could press your own olive oil with a special "maker" machine. I'm glad the more recent HM games added different varieties of tea trees. I thought that was a really nice addition, especially since a lot of characters like tea. It would be awesome if you could breed your own varieties of tea with special health or stamina boosting effects. Another option would be a tea miller machine that lets you combine different varieties of teas with different flowers and herbs to make teas that boost energy (high caffeine) or boost health (high antioxidants or vitamin C). The teas could be used to stay up all night without getting tired or give you a health boost so you can work in the rain without getting sick. Cross breeding animals- I absolutely loved this function on HM A Wonderful Life. I could buy a really expensive bull and breed him with my low quality cows and I usually lucked out and got a high quality calf. I really wish HM had expanded on that feature, so that your animals would truly turn out random and have different strengths and weaknesses. EX: Cross bull A, which matures faster, with cow B, which gives more milk, and get a totally new breed of calf C. The new calf will have a visual appearance that is a combination of both parents and it has a chance of maturing more quickly and being a heavy milk producer(if female). However, it may also inherit the poor traits from its parents (ex: can't tolerate heat or cold well, matures slowly, shorter lifespan, prone to disease, etc...). I would love to see random coat patterns generated from a combination of 2 different coat colors too. Animal realism- HM A Wonderful Life was also the only HM game that had realistic animal development. You had to have a chicken AND a rooster to get fertilized eggs, you had to have a cow AND a bull to make baby calves. I'm sure there is a whole generation of kids out there that think that chickens magically produce fertilized eggs and can infinitely hatch out baby chicks. And cow miracle potion? WTF? "I will sprinkle this magic potion on you, Ms. Cow, and you will get pregnant." Not to mention the fact that most HM cows start producing milk as soon as they are adults and they NEVER STOP. I actually know people who think cows produce milk without any of that annoying "getting pregnant" stuff. At least AWL covered that situation realistically too. Cow gets pregnant, gives birth to calf, starts producing milk, can be milked for X amount of time, then stops producing until you breed her again. The whole system doesn't have to be horribly complicated, but it should at least be more realistic and use basic biology. That's all I can think of for now.
My own 'grr' with the Harvest Moon series is there is *always* a really aggravating mechanic that comes between me liking the game and absolutely loving it. I've not played a lot, so YMMV.... For example, Sunshine Islands is my favourite, but was made annoying by the fact that crops required varying amounts of water/sunlight ratios that was impossible to remember. The current one, Tale of Two Towns, is made maddening by things like the need to water a crop twice a day to get the fastest growth and that means a good 5-10 minutes of me doing absolutely nothing in the game, that doing anything with animals takes ages (do I REALLY have to wash the cows every single day?), the sodding increase animal produce mechanic that made me get a tally sheet to keep track of (and still got it wrong) and that I wasted almost 2 years where I could have expanded the farm because it repeatedly demanded I make a bed with ruddy Ore Stone that only drops rarely.... Out of all the Harvest Moon/Rune Factory games, I've settled on Rune Factory 3 as my absolute favourite. It's straight forward, intuitive, only has one easily dealt with hinderance (rotating crops to preserve soil fertility), doesn't gate you for no good reason and is a pretty fun game to play. The dungeons are also fairly difficult and challenging and make a nice break from endless crop farming now I've done all of the main story. I'm really looking forward to see how much more indepth this game can take some of the concepts I adore in the Harvest Moon games - like plant or animal breeding, increasing the quality of crops/livestock - things like that.
I really like this list, it has some wonderful ideas. I do love the tea tree thing too, as well as the breeding.
You should definitely add the cross breeding of plants to that list. In HM:AWL it was possibly one of my favourite features, cross breeding different tree types and crop types that sold for more, then cross breeding the cross-bred ones to get even rarer fruits was so much fun, i'd really enjoy this in Stardew!
Despite how much I liked AWL at first, I learned quickly it has almost no real good replay value what so ever. Lets say you can get 6-8 in game days in an hour on say Back to Nature, you would get lucky to get 1 1/2 days in in a half hour on AWL. There is a reason the PS2 version they lowered the days per month to 10 days a month instead of the classical 30 which the Gamecube version had. My biggest TIP for any game like this is "Progression" don't make it too slow, don't make the days too long, don't make work tedious in an unnecessary time consuming way. Do that, and it can be as simple as the original SNES Harvest Moon game and would automatically be better than a vast majority of Harvest Moon games. When I mean "tedious in an unnecessary time consuming way" I mean for example, Harvest Moon AWL, making butter or cheese, every time you do they present a mini cutscene, which could last around 6 or more seconds, say you want to make 10+ units of butter, well do the math. It is not like it was done even in a fun way, it's just pointless time consumer. I can point things out on tons of Harvest Moon games that they do this with anymore. ANB is a big culprit of this kind of stuff as well. I struggle to get a single day done in 1 and 1/2 15 minute breaks at work during off time, BTN I can start 3 minutes late on breaks, and finish 2 minutes early, it's that much different, BTN on my PSP I mean. Tediousness can be fun, if it's the right kind of tediousness. Tediousness which can pose a direct gameplay challenge, like Harvesting crops on Harvest Moon 64, or SNES. That can be good tediousness, but pointless tediousness like mini cuts cenes for just about everything is not fun. My other only suggestion is making the NPCs useful for something. Back on Harvest Moon 64 there was something amazing about it. NPCs prosed some purpose and were useful. The carpenters actually built things, wives would help on the farm, Kai you'd see him working the fields at the vineyard, Ann, people were busy, BTN did this to some extent as well. Something again which games like AWL, ANB, all failed at miserably. They had NPCs, but a mass majority were not there for anything else but to be there. They need to be useful, they need to be seen like they're working, they need to actually do things, they must have a purpose. You can't call them a blacksmith if they don't smith things *coughs at ANB again* Seriously the Smith of ANB doesn't even make tools, or you can not even buy anything off her. I mean seriously? HM games have fallen so gosh darn far.
I was so confused in ANB, "WHY CAN'T YOU SELL ME STUFF?!", I just wanted to buy a darn new axe... so I got tired of trying to figure it out myself and just googled half of the stuff in the game. (and yet I still married the smith =P)
I have a same complaint about the tailor for example Yuri, she doesn't sell clothes, she only makes clothes, even though her entire shop is adorn with clothes. Worse yet you have to supply all the resources for making the clothes, then still have to pay a steep fee to get them made. It's ridiculous. ANB they have all these awards for festivals which increase how well you make profits off your farm by selling your produce but after a while you realize that money is useless, being you have to make everything, you have to supply material for everything, you can't buy material but for a few useless items off the architect, most of which is the easiest to find anyways. Heck I'm surprised they don't make me drill for oil so we can make fuel for the airplane so I can go on vacation. Harvest Moon 64 still gave the best rewards for Festivals. You get objects, mostly, stuff that adorns your home, memories so to speak, and event photographs, for more memories. Harvest Moon 64 made everything so much more personal. Which is fun.
