Why are tulips better than parsnips?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by UnexpectedParole, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. UnexpectedParole

    UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

    Ok, this might be edge case. <very likely is edge case>

    And maybe they are not, but the title seemed catchy. :)

    Either way, since there are three sides to the starting parsnip argument and different ways to get to farming 6 by Spring whatever... I was building a spreadsheet from the wiki values and something stood out to me.
    Tulips provide 45 energy and 20 health each. For a cost of 20g. Sure you water then for 2 more days than parsnips. But for 4 e more upfront you get 20 E gain later each?

    1. I'll concede parsnips suck for making money and many folks sell them. Perfectly fine. You don't want tulips either then, don't worry about it.

    2. Many folks just go ahead and plant the 15 either to sell or to eat for energy.

    3. Many guides proposed buying more parsnips at the start. (Trying for a farming 2 harvest on the 5th) Does anyone still do that?

    So for most of my farms I planted 13 starting parsnips and a califlower and a green bean. Trying for the speed-gro from the crops bundle for my strawberries on the 13th. For quite a while now I had been planting about 40 parsnips and 40 potatoes on the 6th to replace with 40 potatoes and 40 parsnips on the 10th and 12th respectively. That got me to the 16th with 80 cauliflower planted. Strawberries would be as many as I could plant on the side of that on the 13th/14th with speed gro and without. Hoping to goodness that it rained on a day I had 5 copper bars and 2,000. But watering 80 crops

    But now I am experimenting with different planting configurations and starts and trying to work in a set day off between fields so I can get my copper watering can upgraded while I wait a day to plant the second batch under scarecrow.

    So current plan for consideration is as follows. Obviously it needs fleshed out but Please let me know what you guys see are the pros / cons / costs issues with this.

    Day 1 go to Pierre and buy 15 tulips.
    Clear ground for, Plant and water them.
    Day 2. water 15 tulips fish all day buy fiberglass rod asap. (*first negative here. 300 spent on tulips is taken from money needed for rod and bait and or trout soup.)
    Day 3. rain waters crops, go fish for cash. Save fish for level 5 bonus night.
    Day 4. water 15 tulips. Fish all day looking for cash. Save fish for level 5 bonus night - which should be tonight. Sell fish if percent bonus applies. Hoping for 4,000 min for the upgrade and backpack.
    Day 5. water 15 tulips. mine all day target total of 45 copper, 20 stone and 5 coal min. Craft furnace.
    Day 6. water 15 tulips, smelt the 5 copper bars and give Clint the watering can for upgrade to copper. Fish for cash. hopefully k
    Day 7. Harvest 15 tulips at 7 xp each for 105xp and farming level 1. -Foraging level 3 needed today as well if tappers.
    Day 8 Build scarecrow. Plant fertilized parsnips to be harvested on the 12th leaving you plenty of open field to plant strawberries in. Collect copper can and water lots of fields with ease. 111 would be exactly two fills of the copper can assuming 1 water for the pet. One could also plant unfertilized parsnips if you needed more speed gro strawberries.
    Day 9. water crops etc.
    Fish to raise money
    Day 12 Harvest the parsnips. Plant the 9 museum cauliflower if you have them. 9 parsnips if you don't. Plant a Green Bean and potato for bundle and a Jazz for honey if you want. Figure how many strawberries you ware going to buy tomorrow, and plant the rest in parsnips.
    Day 13 Plant the purchased strawberries in speed gro and fertilized soil as planned,

    What do we think?

    (I know, wall of text. sorry.)
     
      Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
    • ShneekeyTheLost

      ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

      The problem is the extra two days, that means Tulips don't compete with Parsnips, they compete with Potatoes. which is 14 xp, or Kale, which is 17 xp.

      However, having brought this into consideration, I need to run some numbers, maybe a 12 Potato/Kale + 1 Parsnip (for bundle) + Cauliflower + Green Been start can get Farming 2 by day 7 instead of farming 1.

      Hmm... math time... pardon my usage of this space as the back of the napkin

      The cauliflower and the green bean aren't going to be involved here because they won't be yielding in time for this factor

      380 is the number to beat for Farming 2.

      Now, 12 potatoes @ 14 xp/ea = 168, while 12 kale @ 17xp/ea is 204. Still around 180 xp shy. Nuts.

      Cauli is 23 xp/ea, which means 13 Cauli (12 plus the one you were already going to have, leaving the other two crops as the bean and the parsnip) is 299... still 80 short. And loses a whole extra week of substantial cropping. Net sum loss compared to conventional tactics.

      The 13 parsnip opener still gets Farming 1 done soonest, and that's important because until you get Farming 1, you're limited to 15 crops assuming you don't want to risk Crows.

      The only other way I could see speeding up Farming 2 any faster would be something like a 50 parsnip opening, hoping to end up with at least 48 parsnips by the 5th for Farming 2 instead of 1. However, Farming 2 doesn't really give you anything relevant that you absolutely *need* for day 5. It unlocks Mayo machines and basic sprinklers, neither of which are going to be useful yet. It *does* get you closer to your ultimate goal of Farming 8 by the end of the season. But since that's 6,900 farming xp you're looking at, it's still just a drop in the bucket. Especially when you're going to be planting fields of potatoes or kale and strawberries once Farming 1 hits.

      So, at least for now, the 13 parsnip, 1 cauli, and 1 bean sprout opening seems optimal at this point.

      I applaud your attempt at thinking outside the box, but I just don't see the benefit it has.
       
      • UnexpectedParole

        UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

        Fair enough. All valid discussion points. This is why I've posted here.

        Maybe I am not clear enough here. But they absolutelty compete with parsnips on day 1 because of the 20 price tag. I can buy 15 for 300g and still have 200g left over for fishing rod. On day 1 only 10 potatoes are available out of that 500g. and that is going without the cauli and bean you wanted too.

        I'm not planting these crops for the xp. As you mentioned, this is drop in the bucket time. I'm planting them for farming 1 and food.

        Point of note. chub are 25 e for 50g right? or 2g/e ? Tulips are 45 e for 30 g. Which is 0.75g/e. This is a significant find wouldn't you think?

        As you mentioned farming 2 is not really a big deal. Farming 5 by the first harvest of strawberries is plenty fine, if we want speed gro for strawbereies that would be 150 parsnips planted for the 12th. That is a possbile benchmark. But it is probably stretching.

        And, yes I'm limited to 15 crops without farming 1, but you'll see that is for only the extra 2 days, after which I have the copper watering can which drastically increases my abilty to have crops after.

        Conventional. 15 crops day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4. day 5 harvest. Plant day 6. w/ 40 charges 2x fill = 79 plants assuming water pet. (39) and (40)
        Tulips. 15 crops day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5, day 6, harvest day 7 plant day 8. w/ 55 charges. = 111 plants assuming water pet. (18x3) and (19 x 3)

        That is 15 more charges per fill, I've made back those two days, the first day haven't I if I water to two fills? (Which is what I was previously doing.)
        79 crops vs 111 crops. Not to mention time and energy savings. 38 watering actions with the copper vs 80 watering actions with the reg can.

        32 more crops on harvest day just re-couped those two days without 15.

        The only reason I'm going parsnips on the 8th is to have the loads of ground for strawberries pre-hoed for the 13th. I could do something longer term like potatoes and kale then turn that into a farming xp machine if need be.

        But I think you've got to get with me here first. ?

        Thoughts?
         
          Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
        • ShneekeyTheLost

          ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

          I think I see where you are going with this, but I think you've neglected to realize that Tulip/Parsnip is the same timing as Parsnip/Potato.

          You're talking about planting 15 tulips, then harvesting them all, then planting 40 parsnips in time to have the ground prepared to plant your strawberries.

          I am talking about 13 parsnips to hit Farming 1 on Day 5, which gives me time to plant 40x potatoes/kale on, which then comes up just in time to plant Strawberries on. You're still looking at the 13th for your yield to come up, it's just that with mine, you're getting 40 potatoes instead of 40 parsnips, for overall better xp and better cash so you can afford your strawberries.

          That's what I meant when I said tulips compete with potatoes, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear in my initial post. It's not that you plant potatoes day 1, it's that you plant parsnips day 1, then potatoes day 6 for harvest on 13th instead of planting tulips day 1 then parsnips day 8 for harvest on the 13th.

          In general, the fewer parsnips you plant, the better off you are going to be.
           
          • UnexpectedParole

            UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

            I am not talking about planting 40 parsnips to plant strawberries in. I'm talking about at least 57 that since I will have the copper watering can which will allow me to water 3x the spaces with one action. You'll water 40 times and I'll water 19. 57 parsnips that cost me 840 vs your 40 potatoes at a cost of 2,000.

            Parsnip + potato is signficantly lower in E than tulip + parsnip.
            Your 15 parsnips and 40 potatoes = 1375 energy. 55x25.
            My 57 parsnips are 1425 alone plus 675 for 15 tulips. is 2100 energy.
            And the cash is irrelevant if you are eating them. There is no cash.

            However, if cash matters to you (and it should).
            Energy gained per Cash outlay = 2100 energy vs 840 cash = 0.4g per E. Tulips and Parnsips. Way better than eating chubs.
            Energy gained per cash outlay. 1375 energy vs 2,000 cash = 1.51g per E, parsnip + potato This is better than chubs, But significantly higher than my cost.
            (chubs used as a commonly acknowledge benchmark)

            15 parsnip @8 xp + 50 potato @14 xp = 820 xp.
            15 tulip@7 xp + 57 parsnips@8 xp = 561 xp.
            So you have 259 more xp. I spent 2000-840 = 1160 less than you did.
            If those are directly planted into strawberries (which they will be). The conservatively, My 11 strawberries will make me an 396 xp which covers that gap. Not to mention conservatively the 11 strawberries alone will make me 2640g.

            I'm trading xp for energy and cheaper up front cost apparently. And a significant reduction in watering. But i'm not sure I am losing out. You'll have to do better than this to disuade me.

            edit to add. I had speed gro as farming 4 incorrectly before.
            With 84 parsnips on day 8 farming 3 can be achieved on the 12th to still have speed-gro for strawberries if wanted. 150 are not needed. 84 plants for the first planting under a scarecrow is pretty much where I was before. I'm pretty sure I can plant 111 easy.
             
              Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
            • One More Day

              One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

              Tulips are indeed fantastic food in terms of g/E, and because of this I briefly experimented with them a while back, but they simply don't work. Their terrible XP/day is not the only handicap; they're also impractical as food because, as well as getting different crop quality, they also come up in five different colours, and each combination of those two factors needs an inventory slot. You don't want to be lugging them round in the mine.

              There's also the day 1 cash handicap. If you're insistent that planting 15 crops on day 1 is essential, the parsnips are there and are free, or you could use mixed seeds, also free; you might as well plant free stuff instead of paying for the privilege.
               
              • UnexpectedParole

                UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                The day 1 300g spent on crops is an issue to consider. But I've been routinely buying a cauli 80 and bean 60 plus trout soup for 250 on day 1 and not selling much of anything and still getting the fishing rod by day 3 am. So I'm not worried about 300g on tulips instead. That's cake.

                And , now that I've gone through the comments and other angles presented I realize that strawberries can be planted on day 14. Which could make this a tulips + potatoes plan instead.
                Barring the decision on trying to craft speed gro for strawberries or not.

                Which is funny since the argument is parsnip + potatoes is better than tulips+ parnsips.
                And Now I'm going to look at tulips+ potatoes. Begging the question. Why are tulips better (or not) than parsnips? lol.

                impracticality in the mines or at the fishing shore is something I had not considered since I forgot about the different colors.
                That is a potential 'problem'.

                But I'm wondering if either they don't stay at the farm in chests to use to re-energize after watering. Or go in the fishing chest to re-energize instead of eating chubs. Or in the top of mine chest where you top off before delving in the mines. Obviously the parsnips or potatoes could be the big single stack item for in mine use. I'll consider it and take it under advisement.
                I just can't get over how much cheaper that energy is that any other form.
                 
                • One More Day

                  One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                  OK, here's another thought about why I personally wouldn't use tulips for food.

                  If your tulip is planted on day 1, you need to spend 12E to be able to harvest it – 2E to hoe the ground, and 10E to water it 5 times, with free watering on day 3. I've assumed no other rain, because that is by far the most likely outcome; the first four days are fixed, and there's more than two thirds chance of no rain at all on the other two days. For your outlay of 12E, you get back 45E six day later, a profit of 33E. Again I've made a reasonable assumption, this time that the tulip will be base quality, as this is 97% likely to happen.

                  Now let's compare with fishing for chub, or smallmouth bass. You spend 8E every time you cast your line, and then you catch the fish, and initially it rewards you with a base quality fish worth 25E, a profit of just 17E. At first glance, it looks like chub only gives half the reward of the tulip, and is pretty much struggling to compete with any crop at all, never mind tulips. But here's the thing; barring an occasional trash catch, every cast will bring in more E than you expend, and even better, fishing gives you your reward as soon as you spend the E, meaning you can recover and recycle the energy much faster; farming, on the other hand, won't reward you until several days after you have spent that energy.

                  And if the base E earned from fishing wasn't enough, fishing now scores a slam dunk winner with its XP, because you get that immediately too, and hence benefit from level-ups on the day you spend the energy as well. With a little planning and practice, it's very easy to progress through the first few skill levels, and within a few hours of day 2 you will be catching silver and gold quality fish. The silver quality is worth 35E, a profit of 27E, and already we've nearly beaten out the tulips; the gold quality is worth 45E, a profit of 37E, and fishing is about to smack tulips out of the park. But now we are into v1.4, the grand slam homer for fishing is that it is quite possible to catch iridium quality fish by the evening of day 2. An iridium quality chub (or smallmouth bass) still only costs 8E to catch, but you haul in a fish worth a massive 65E, a profit of 57E. And you get it right there and then, fresh and ready to eat. And if you spend the whole of day 3 fishing, you can easily net at least 15-20 of those bad boys, worth a colossal 975-1,300E. It's at least twice what the tulips are going to be bringing in, and remember, you won't be able to actually get your hands on the tulips for another 4 days.

                  Meanwhile, alongside the chubs and smallmouth that you keep for food, you'll be catching other fish for money, for all the crops and upgrades and whatever that you want to buy. Tulips really can't compete with fish as a food source, and if they can't do it then nor can any other crop. So, as you aren't using any crops for food, you should focus on using the crops for getting Farming XP, and in your first spring, the most efficient way to do that, in terms of XP gained per unit energy spent, is with kale. It takes six days, or 12E to water, plus 2E to hoe the ground, a total of 14E, and it earns 17XP when harvested, making it the only crop with an XP/E ratio greater than 1. If you want to eat the crops once they're grown, that's fine, but it shouldn't really be your main reason for growing them

                  Potatoes completely suck for food. If you chose potatoes as your XP crop, you should sell the whole lot and buy salad from gus, you'll get a lot more E for your money




                  As usual, I approach this all from an efficiency point of view. If you just want to be totally casual, just plant whatever you feel like, because nothing in this game is intrinsically right or wrong. Except marrying Harvey. That 'tache is definitely wrong.
                   
                  • UnexpectedParole

                    UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                    Quite interesting points here. Thanks for continuing to dialog with me. I appreciate the numbers to back the point(s).
                    I'm going to have to crunch some other numbers and identify some key assumptions that I must not have conveyed and type up a response later when I'm not supposed to be working.


                    edit to add.
                    I'm not sure how to respond to the "casual play" reference. I playing as hard and efficiently as I can, cannot for the life of me get farming 8 before summer, AND have even 20 sprinklers. I don't power game, but I'm not on the themed end of the spectrum either. Since I can't catch catfish and don't get through the mines as fast as folks have proven they can I'm looking into things that might upgrade what I have already been doing whilst I try to improve my fishing skills so that I can finally tap into the catfish funds that power most high end strats.



                    The goals of this strat that are concrete.
                    Point 1. The goal here is to work in a day 6 watering can upgrade. Period. Assuming no rain other than day 3.
                    Point 2. Farming 1 "must" be achieved before planting more than 15 crops.
                    Point 3. Farming 6 is a must before end of spring (preferably last day of strawberry harvest to give me time to craft the sprinklers.)
                    Point 4. Farming 8 by the end of Spring would be a luxury. I'd be more than happy with Farming 8 by the 10th of Summer.
                    point 5. Farming 4 by 12th spring would be nice. but is not considered mandatory yet.

                    Update. I tried Tulips plus a parsnips/kale hybrid buy.

                    With no real issues at all, and very little fishing treasure luck.
                    I was able to buy the backpack on day 5.
                    The copper watering can upgrade on day 6.
                    Day 8 Bought and planted 70 parsnips and 26 kale all fully fertilized plus the 15 free parsnips unfertilzed.
                    Had plenty of energy for chopping trees to get foraging 3 by day 8 along with the copper bars for 3 tappers, and enough parsnips for farming 3 by day 12.

                    Day 12 dawned with two pine sap (I missed the tree in the dark and put the 3rd tapper on a maple) but only one clam. (I checked a lot, but found other things.) So speed gro strawberries will only be 5, but I can also beehive soon.
                    I have 11,325 after selling the harvest today and over 111 fields tilled and fertilized. That is more than enough for the plan which was to plant a bean 60, a potato, 50 a jazz 30 the 9 free cauli and 93 strawberries/ fertilized and 5 speed gro strawberries. Obviously 26 of the strawberries will go down on the 14th when the kale comes up.
                    The kale sale will pay for the copper pick upgrade on the 15th. I'll need to fish for the 5k for the steel pick upgrade for the 17th.

                    I'm projecting my future plants/schedule and it looks like I'll have 5197 farming xp which is level 7, and 1703 short of level 8. I might be ok with that. However, 100 kale planted on or bfore the 22nd would solve that. IF I needed the kegs. But I don't know that I do. it might be enough for the first harvest in summer to make that up.

                    Also have 4 iridium chub and 7 silver chub which would take my total to over 12,500 if I want/need.

                    Though I do want that food for the mine diving to get the copper and steel for my upgrades, and head towards the gold for sprinklers.
                    I'm not hating how this turned out. We'll see.

                    Fishing funds a lot of the upgrades. Selling 1/2 to 3/4 of my day 8 parsnips helps if I didn't cash out in fishing all that well (pretty reliably get a diamond or equivalent day 2/3, though... probably 75% of my games), and still leaves me with plenty of presents. I generally don't use the parsnips for energy other than sometimes on the farm. Energy is split between a few different sources: fish, cave carrots, field snacks mainly. I usually take ~2 hours to top off right outside the mine and sometimes get an extra fish or two to take down on each day (helps getting to 8/9 fishing faster to push for Legend on one of the earlier days). My standard upgrade order is copper axe on day 6, then copper and straight to iron pick as soon as I get to floor 40. If I get one of the fishing weapons, I'll often wait to floor 50 to open up the minecarts (I either get the fire quartz directly from fishing, or sometimes save scum a bit with magma geodes). My current run I'm hitting level 40 on day 9... slightly slower than usual because I had a rain/fish day on the 7th, but of course that got me plenty of money for the upgrades so I don't have to get the money other ways. This time I'll probably upgrade the pick on the 9th to 11th, then the 12th to 14th over the festival. That gives me one day in the middle to hit L50/55 to open up the minecarts and get closer to 80+ for the gold. I have enough gold bars for 3 sprinklers, so I won't have to push too hard to finish up all of them shortly after the 15th when the recipe is available. I'm ahead of average on gold ore from fishing this run, but 2 days behind when I usually get my iron pick. I usually use that from the 12th to the 15th to push down to 80+ to get the necessary gold ore. And the gold from the 80+ kale on day 14 lets me start working on other things like my barn, if I haven't already caught Legend by then.

                    I switched in 1.4 to fishing the town river on day 2 even in the daytime. Even counting in the travel time, it's been worth it. The main reason is that the training rod, while nice, can't catch silver/gold/iridium, which makes a huge difference in both money and xp... but you do need it to get perfects on ocean fish pretty reliably. That makes up a little bit for the xp loss, and the fish do seem to bite faster just like extra fishing levels would give you, but it's still not going to be as good or even as easy as perfect town river fish.

                    I start the same way as you on day 2, but as soon as it hits 9am I'll sell what I got (3-4 fish), buy 1 trout soup and head to town until 3pm if I get lucky with gems or 4pm otherwise. Then I still go get my fiberglass rod, bait, and 2-3 more soups, and head back to town. I definitely end up with more money and xp (even wasting the ~90 minutes) than a training rod in the ocean. I've only barely surpassed the money and xp in the ocean with really lucky halibut/flounder days and a normal rod. Although a long-lasting bubbles at either place will always be the best choice, but those are fairly rare. Plus the town run lets me sell my spring seeds and gift Jas for the extra 100g and so she lets me in her room earlier. Having her room locked really messes up my Sun/Fri friendship runs :D
                     
                      Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2019
                      Shepherd_0 likes this.
                    • UnexpectedParole

                      UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                      Ok. I've read and re-red this thread and checked the numbers and I don't get it.

                      At the risk of this post sounding combative (which it is not intended to be) I just can't understand the argument posed as to why " [a farmer] personally wouldn't use tulips for food."

                      I have a tulip planted on day 1 and harvested on day 7. I am totally fine assuming it is base quality.
                      It cost me 20g to buy. 12e to plant, water and harvest. I could sell it for 30g or I could eat it for 45e. So we agree so far.

                      It's now day 8. I have watered plants, chopped trees and cost myself some energy but I'll go fish now with let's say 0g in the bank and 100e in the tank.

                      I have now just caught a chub. It cost me 0g. I could sell if for 50g or eat it for 25 e.

                      At this very moment on day 8 I now have spent 20g and 20e on both items, 0g, 100e, and several options to improve my situation.

                      1. I could eat the tulip and gain the 45e and save the chub to sell for 50g. That would leave me 50g and 145e.
                      2. I could eat the chub and gain 25e and save the tulip to sell for 30g. That would leave me with 30g and 125e.

                      All I can see that is 45e and 50g is much more efficient use of resources, energy, money and time than 25e and 30g.

                      Now let's assume I didn't plant just one tulip, let's assume I planted 15 tulips and don't have to use the training rod on day 8 to catch the chub. Let's say I've caught 15 gold chubs.

                      15 tulips took 180e to plant water and harvest. and sell at 30g each for 450g.
                      15 gold chubs took 120e and cost nothing to catch. They sell for 75g/93g which is 1,125g/1395.

                      I've paid 300g and 300e to acquire these 30 items. Again I need energy and money.

                      1. eat tulips 45e x 15 = 675e gained. sell chubs 75 each or 93 each with fisher =1,125g/1,395g pocketed.
                      2. eat gold chubs 45e x 15 = 675e gained. sell tulips 4,50g gained.
                      So we've gained the exact same amount of energy but selling the fish gains 675g/945g more than selling the tulips.

                      I'm planting crops to gain farming level and provide energy or money. We all are.
                      I'm fishing to gain fishing level and provide energy or money. We all are.
                      I can't raise my farming level with chubs and I can't raise my fishing level with tulips so neither is an argument against not having the other.
                      So the only choice we have then if one has both is what to do with them once acquired?
                      It's dead easy on day 8 to carry 15 tulips to the fishing hole and place them in the bin. It's trivial to grab tulips from the bin to eat while dumping things like ores and trash that are filling backpack slots. So straight up chub in backpack vs tulips in the bin, I'll take the slight loss of time to juggle inventory to gain the extra money.

                      The 675g/945g difference of gold balance on day 8 or day 9 (depending on when you eat that last chub) seems like a no-brainer to me. Eat tulips sell chubs.

                      When given the choice between raising tulips for food or eating chubs for food i need a better argument than this one to not do it.

                      I'm not telling you that eating chubs when you don't have tulips is "wrong" or "inefficient". I agree that when you don't have tulips they are one of the best sources of energy out there. Obviously. And for day 2 - day 7 fishing, eat all the chubs your heart desires. But the argument of why you would never eat a tulip instead of a chub escapes me.

                      You want to post why parsnips (or kale or potatoes or are better than tulips for gaining farming level 1 and thus a farmer would never have tulips at all to make this argument moot, this might be the thread for it.
                       
                        Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
                      • Arqane

                        Arqane Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                        The biggest problem by far in my opinion for comparing eating costs is the lack of stackability for tulips. You give a good enough point for the value of eating them... but there are 15 combinations of tulips, and every time I plant 15-18 tulips (my usual for pretty early), I end up with at least 5 stacks, usually 7-8, with a max stack size of 3. So you've got a couple problems. First, it takes quite a lot of storage, which also costs time and money. You could of course bring the largest single stack each day to eat, but even if you plant 80 tulips, you're likely to end up with your biggest stacks still only in the 5-6 range. Fish, on the other hand, will almost always take up 1-2 slots. I'll usually eat one level on the spot (either gold or iridium), and save one stack for transporting down into the mines or whatever.

                        And there's a couple other issues. Tulips give horrible farming xp, so you run into a couple problems. If you plant any other crop, you're going to use up tons of time and energy with that huge field. And getting to farming 6/quality sprinklers is one of the most effective efficiency boosts in the game for time, money and your sanity. Just planting lots of parsnips will get you farming 6 somewhere around day 20-24. A combo with kale or cauliflower will get you there around day 14-18. Planting enough tulips to eat means you probably won't have quality sprinklers until the Summer, which is very bad. Tulips are only 1.16xp/day, that's barely over half of parsnips, and kale is almost 3x better. Cauliflower is slightly worse per day than parsnips, but you can make much smaller fields (so less watering per day and less energy loss). Planting enough tulips to eat is going to hamper your ability to farm any of those much better ones for the mid-long term.
                         
                        • UnexpectedParole

                          UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                          Tulips fit in your backpack on the way to the fishing hole and fit in the chest. There is no stackability issue. One more day spoke abouit eating chub directly after the catch while fishing to gain xp with each catch. I am talking about eating tulips instead because they are superior food. You want to eat chubs in the mine, fell free. I just saved you 15 more.

                          15 tulips gets you farming 1, which is pretty much the goal of my first harvest.
                          I'm not planting over 15 crops until after the scarecrow. Which is after farming lvl 1.
                          I get a copper watering can guaranteed day 8 for planting what-ever XP bearing crop I want.

                          At this point that looks like 85 parsnips and 26 kale to get farming 3 by the 12th and two watering cans worth of crops hoed for strawberries on the 13th or 14th.
                          Two copper cans of watering is easy watering. No sanity issues at all.

                          See the above post where I spelled out the results of my first run.
                          But I'm willing to listen to your alternate planting idea. 15 parnsip to start? How is that better than the tulips?
                           
                            Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
                          • Grimgaw

                            Grimgaw Space Spelunker

                            The seeds are free. SDV is a snowball game. Spending your starting money instead of using free stuff sets you back no matter how you spin it.
                             
                            • UnexpectedParole

                              UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                              "sets me back". "sets me back"

                              Sure. Quantify that though. Because I am ahead of the strategy of eating chubs on day 9 by 1395g. I plant the free parsips on day 8 anyway, so it's not like I'm wasting them.

                              Accounting for the 300g spent to purchase these tulips. I am getting 675 e for 300 e. That is 2.25 e/g spent. 4.5x better than chubs.

                              if I did parnsips and ate them it would be 375g. "Free" which is infinite. And so we can look at the extra 300e I eat cost me 300g or 1 e/g.

                              Chubs give us 25e for 50g. which is 0.5 e/g . Tulips eaten instead of free parsnips are twice as good energy producers than chubs which is the benchmark.


                              I'm just missing the what? food? The tulips are better food. And, I'm planting those 15 later which means my farming level will be higher and the chance for gold parsnips will be increased. And i'll still get to eat them if I want. I'll still have them.
                              The sale money? I'd rather eat tulips and sell chubs -there is more money in that. (I've even quantified it.)
                              The xp? 15 tulips is enough xp for farming 1 and the difference in xp is 15. <yawn> I make way more xp back on the 2nd planting with the watering can.
                              I'm missing the 300g ? As long as I have the fiberglass rod and bait on day 3 in the am I don't see how I'm behind there.
                              Am I behind sprinklers for the strawberries? I can assure you I've never reached that, and the tulips won't be roadblock. Anything I'm put "behind" by would be the catfish I can't catch.

                              What are you doing with those free parsnips that makes you more than 1395g on day 9? I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying you have posted nothing to quantify this and thus give us a valid counter point to use.

                              The starting 500g, 1st planting, and early fishing gets us to farming 1 by day 8 to plant 2nd crop. Foraging 3 by day 8 which is tappers. The second crop gets us Farming 3 by day 12 which is speed gro. Mines deep enough for copper to upgrade watering can day 7 and those tappers on day 8. It gets me clams for the speed gro strawberries if I want it. It nets me over 11,000g to buy 111 strawberries. And be at farming level 7 for sure, with a very possible farming level 8 by the end of spring. I just need to decide if I'm planting an additional 100 kale and letting the storms do the watering until the strawberries don't need it.

                              What am I behind by waiting 8 days to plant free parsnips that many say are rubbish anyway and the seeds should be sold?
                               
                                Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
                              • Arqane

                                Arqane Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                If you're doing tulips, wouldn't your 2nd crop be on day 14? If you plant the 2nd crop day 6, you haven't hit farming 1 and scarecrows yet if you started with tulips. Not that crows are really all that bad. ~1/3 chance for every 16 crops to lose 1 plant. The only concern I have for crows is that they don't eat my day 1 cauliflower so I can get the easy 20 speed-gro for strawberries the night of the egg festival. But getting at least 2 cauliflower from mixed seeds almost guarantees you'll have one. I usually do a mass planting on day 4, and never get the watering can upgrade in Spring anymore, since my strategy already has sprinklers on day 15.

                                But as far as quantifying, you really need to add in the cost of the wood. Each chest is 100g worth of wood, plus wood is really often a chokepoint if you're not willing to buy it. As you said, if you're using tulips, you're going to be relying on chests. And the time chopping down the wood is also a factor (though yes, of course it helps foraging skill which is nice). But with bait, you'll catch about 4 fish/hour on average. At 93 each (gold chub w/fisher bonus, since you're fishing more), that's ~370g in the time you took to chop down 4 trees if you were fishing instead. So the 370g lost from fishing + 100g lost from wood used for 1 extra chest would be 470g. Compare that to the 675/945 you quoted, and it significantly drops the difference in profit. Plus you didn't seem to account for possible silver/gold tulips to be sold, which makes it even closer.

                                So you may pull *slightly* ahead in cash using the tulip eating trick, but I personally wouldn't want to waste the wood that early, or time walking to and from chests somewhere (also time that could be spent fishing for gold or other useful pursuits). You bring up a good point and found a possible net increase in cash, but make sure you're accounting for all the factors.
                                 
                                • UnexpectedParole

                                  UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                  Fair enough response. Thanks for the talking points.

                                  I'm not planting more than 15 day one. If I exceed 15 before the scarecrow it is for rice only. Those don't require watering. I don't plant anything again until day 8 when I have my copper watering can. I used to plant the 15 parsnips day 1 and then 80 total parsnips/potatoes on day 6. That was two watering can fills of watering.
                                  Now I'm waiting until day 8 to replant and having a copper can for that batch. I like the copper can because for 2 water charges I can get 3 spaces watered. At a price of 4 e per 3 fields instead of 2 per 1.

                                  And the current strategy is tulips for the day 1 planting only. The 4 day harvest turn around matters in later harvests for certain deadlines. And specifically the day 12 harvest with lvl 3 farming as the target to get speed grow. I laid out the current planting plan in the previous post. 15 tulips on day 1. 85 parsnips and 26 kale planted on day 8 got me to 111 fields which was my original target watering/energy consumption goal and number of strawberries/cauliflower/bean and potato. I need to revise this since numbers I was using for charges was wrong for some reason. The wiki has different information and it actually might help me get my extra kale in and achieve farming lvl 8 by the end of spring. Yes the kale doesn't harvest until the 14th. But strawberries planted on the 14th still give two harvests. And speed gro strawberries get planted into the spaces vacated by the 85 parsnips which got me the lvl 3 farming experience on the 12th. The Cauliflower can also be planted on the 12th.

                                  I've tried this strat twice. So far I've had to build no 'extra' chests. I chop enough trees for 1 chest to get off the farm day 1 to forage and meet everyone. Then come back that evening/night and burn as energy as I can shopping more trees for a chest to start day 2 fishing with and extra. The next morning some farms I chop another chest, others I don't. It depends on if I want to trout soup on day 2 or not. Which I have been leaning to not using since I'm better at catching fish and the cost is so high.

                                  One chest at home on the farm can hold tulips among everything else that I'm storing. These can be eaten directly after watering or hoe or chopping energy losses. or even waking up short. I'm standing next to it to put the watering can away anyway, no excess walking. 45e per item is pretty nice. One chest at the fishing spot. (either the mountain lake or the river or ocean depending on where that discussion ends up. At the moment the chest is mountain lake. I know those fish too well to fish elsewhere.) I have plenty of slots in that chest as well to store tulips. It is 3 steps away which is near enough I always stop at the chest to start fishing and stop fishing anyway. The 3rd chest is built for day 5 and goes at the top of the mine. I stop at it on the way in and out anyway. I don't think I need tulips for the mines -I only have 15 anyway, they can be used on the farm or fishing. But I could easily fit them there too, to be eaten as coming into or between 5 level steps if I need them. I have not at all chopped wood instead of fishing due to the tulips.

                                  I used to get the cauliflower and bean to get speed gro for strawberries. I spent quite a few farms at 13 parsnips started with a cauli and bean, But this strategy is ignoring them since I don't want to water on day 7 and have not worked out a good plan for a sprinkler on that day <yet>. And 20 speed gro strawberries from the cc might not be worth the rushing to the cc on day 13 after the festival. I think I would prefer to forage the beach and other areas. Especially if I can get some of my own speed gro made. Speed gro blueberries on summer 1 are really good too the cc bundle speed gro can be used there.

                                  I can't get sprinklers for strawberries. I don't mine fast enough to get those levels even without farming or fishing. I assume you are funding via catfish? Are you upgrading the pick at all? What are you eating for the mine diving energy?

                                  The cash bonus on day 9 was only referenced as a possible talking point for a quantifiable value vs a blank claim of "behind" with no support. Obviously if I'm eating chubs in the mine since I don't have a crop of parsnips then I'm shorter money than that too. But since they didn't tell me they were eating the parsnips I wondered if maybe they were selling them? Realistically since I ate the parsnips in the mine if I could got get enough spring onions I'm effectively shifting chub eating into the mines before the harvest, day 5 However, even if I only break even on money. I am way ahead in energy. 15 parsnip I don't eat are chubs, which in turn are tulips I eat on day 8 or 9. That isn't deniable and pretty much the point of the start.


                                  What are you doing with your parsnips that I'm missing out on?
                                   
                                  • Shepherd_0

                                    Shepherd_0 Starship Captain

                                    Yes.

                                    Now that the training rod is a thing, it's very easy to get fishing 2 on day 2 before Willy closes his shop. Just fish at the ocean right at Willy's front door, and you should hit fishing 2 at about three in the afternoon, at the very least. At fishing 2, it's possible to buy the fibreglass rod. The only thing that's really a problem at this point is money. Assuming you want one trout soup (to get to a fishing 4 temporarily for iridium fish) and about onehundred bait, you need to cough up 2600 gold. Now, depending on how well your first day went, this number is fairly reasonable to hit reliably. However, you don't have the luxury of spending 300 gold on tulip seeds if you want to go for this day two fibreglass strategy. That 300 gold is much better spent on more bait or soup.

                                    You don't have to use this strategy of course, but I bet that the increased cath rate on day two and the time saved by not having to go to Willy on day three is enough to make up for the loss in e/g by not going with tulips. You get iridium smallmouths as soon as day 2 with this strategy. They might not statistically be superior to tulips as a food source, but they are A LOT more convenient.
                                     
                                    • UnexpectedParole

                                      UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                      The sale money to me would be the 35x15 = 525g pierre would give me for the parsnips.
                                      But you are referring to the purchase price of 300. -not to split hairs, it doesn't de-value your point I just wanted to clarify things for my head. What are you doing with those parsnips?

                                      This strat is totally planning on spring 2 fishing in the mountain lake to get to fishing 2 and get the fiberglass rod by the morning of day 3. Then fish the mountain lake. i have had zero issues getting enough xp and money to wait and cash fish in on the 4th with the 25% fisher bonus and buy the backpack on day 5 plus buy whatever seeds I need and the 2000 for a tool upgrade on the 6th.

                                      My previous strat buying a cauli and a bean and a trout soup cost me 390 and I very rarely had issues with getting enough money to buy the fiberglass rod morning of day 3 (especially those that didn't involve a cock up on my part like forgetting where I left the rod). I am not buying the cauli or bean so the tulips only leave me 140 short. Of which I can easily make up with the day 1 forages I don't usually sell. Assuming for a second I want the trout soup still. I tried the training rod. It caps fish at regular value, and didn't seem to do any better for my fishing than the trout soup did. What the trout soup does though, is allow for silver, gold and iridium fish. In the ocean with darting fish seems silly to me since I have no issues with fishing levels or generating the money in the lake. Even fishing "less" by hours. But maybe I'll try that again. it's not hard to run 3 days in a spring and see what happens. Iridium small mouth on day 2? I thought we were fishing the ocean? unless you mean the second day of fishing and that won't happen for me because I will not fish the river. I can't catch catfish so those are wasted casts. my terrible fishing is the culprit, not the tulips.

                                      So 2300 for fiberglass rod and 500 bait, plus 250 for a trout soup was totally easy both times I did it. ?
                                       
                                        Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
                                      • Shepherd_0

                                        Shepherd_0 Starship Captain

                                        You´re right, I was talking about the price of the tulips, not the sale price of the parsnips. My mistake. I farm bushes on day one to get mixed seeds and fiber. I plant the mixed seeds first, trying to get as many parsnips as I can. Usually I get about 7 or so parsnips from mixed seeds. I plant as many of the free parsnips as needed to get to a total of 13. The rest of the seeds go into the bin for a little extra money on day 2. The only thing that planting the 13 parsnips accomplishes is getting to farming 1.

                                        If you get the fiberglass on day 3, then it's indeed not much of a problem to spend money on day 1 since you'll make that money back by fishing. However, if you get the fiberglass on day 2, which is what I'm advocating for, you really can't spend 300 gold on day 1. I think I should clarify my stratetegy a bit and explain why I think that getting the fiberglass rod on day 2 is better than getting it on day 3.

                                        So on day one, the plan is to plant 13 parsnips and get as much money as possible. This means selling all foragebles (except spring onions), expensive food items from trashcans, fibre, clay, coal, and whatever else. If I don't get an artifact for the archeology quest, I reset. The goal is to get at least 1850 gold for the rod on day 2, ideally more. Also be sure to make a second chest for fishing on day 2.

                                        On day 2 I water the parsnips and head directly to the ocean for the cutscene. I fish until Willy opens up and buy the training rod. This rod makes it a lot easier to get perfect catches, which means getting to fishing 2 earlier. The moment I reach fishing 2, usually about 2:00, I sell all the fish and buy the fibreglass rod and bait. I continue fishing at the ocean until right before Willy closes. At 4:50 I sell all my fish again to buy more bait or soup. I spend all of my money so I can pass out today without losing money. I didn't clarify this before, but after I'm stocked with the new rod, enough bait for two days and at least one trout soup, I go to the river under Jodi's house. I plop down the chest and fish the evening away. I use the trout soup when I hit fishing 3, in order to get iridium smallmouths and breams. The reason for fishing at the river here is because it's close to both the ocean and the farm, and because getting perfects on the river fish is really easy. It's also just convenient to have my chest at the river for day 3. By fishing up the easy river fish, I can end the day at fishing 4, which I don't think is possible if you don't have the fiberglass rod.

                                        On day 3 I head straight back to my river spot for catfish. I save about 4 hours here, if not more, by not having to wait for Willy to open up in the morning. I already have the fiberglass rod after all. Now, catfish might seem daunting, but remember that the day 2 rod strategy gets you to fishing 4 on day 2. Usually, I have one or two trout soup saved up from day 1 as well, which means that on day 3 I'll be fishing at fishing 5 or 6 throughout most of the day. That should be enough to get catfish fairly reliably.

                                        That is exactly why I think getting the fiberglass as soon is possible is so important. It allows you to get catfish somewhat reliably, which probably nets a lot more profit than fishing at the lake on day 3. If you want to commit to this strategy, you really can't spend 300 gold on tulips. You don't have to commit to this strategy if you don't want to, of course. If buying the rod on day 3 works for you, go ahead. However, I'm not convinced it's a more lucrative strategy in the end.


                                        I also want to make another point about the watering can upgrade. Throughout this thread, it seems like you treat getting the can upgrade is something that is only possible if you go with tulips into parsnips, which is something I disagree with. You can start with free parsnips, go for the can upgrade on day 6, plant however many potatoes on day 8, and still be in time for two harvests of strawberries. The only downside to this is that you have to plant the strawberries on day 14, which means that you can't use speed-gro.
                                         
                                        • UnexpectedParole

                                          UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                          Great response. Perfect. I don't pass out at night unless I get caught up in something and can't make it home. Maybe that is a role play thing, maybe it is a personal quirk that directly counters a min-max gamer playstyle. But I am playing a game here, not abusing code. That sets me back on most strats. I can assure you that with a Fiberglass rod and greater than level 6 fishing I struggle to catch catfish in the summer in the secret woods. Depending on RNG. I might - might get 1, or maybe 3. in a whole day of fishing. So day 3 catfish isn't a thing, even at level 6. My roadblock with that strategy would be the catfish, not the 300g.

                                          -Of course let's look into these numbers a bit and see if this is something I should really be practicing for. To get the fishing rod on day 2, it sounds like you are giving up the stars on the fish to gain perfect catches (on darters) for bonus xp. You are also selling things like coal which I am loath to do, but no need to discuss that. But by giving up the stars, you are effectively paying more in gold for the rod, bait and soup than need be. A regular sardine sells for 40 an silver for 50. That is a 25% sacrifice. Anchovies and herring at 30 and 37 =23.3%. Flounder 100 and 125. =25% Even figuring in the odd regular fish I suspect this is close to a 20% sacrifice, and that is before we talk about the what would have been silver being upgraded to gold with the perfect catch perk. Gold carp and bullheads are a thing with the bamboo pole on the mountain lake spring 2.

                                          Since regular ocean fish average roughly 50g per catch, I estimate in the 25 or so fish you've caught with the training rod 1250g worth of fish would have been worth near 1500. At that rate I think I would rather have bought the trout soup for 250 and taken the silvers and golds? This does what? It gets you iridium smallmouth and bream on day 2 after close, and 3 extra hours fishing for catfish on day 3?

                                          You are correct, the watering can upgrade does not require tulips. One could plant parsnips and wait.
                                          Or one could plant potatoes on the 6th and not water them on the 7th which would harvest then the 13th.
                                          But as of yet, no-one has provided me with a valid reason to not plant the tulips instead. Yours is the closest so far. But since it involves fishing skills greater than mine I'm not there yet.

                                          Also, potatoes harvesting on the 14th or 13th don't get me farming 3 on the 12th for manufacturing speed gro. Why would I give up the speed gro just to get parsnips and potatoes instead of the tulips? What is so special about these free parsnips i'm missing?
                                           
                                            Last edited: Dec 20, 2019

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