Modding Help Non-binary farmer? is it possible?

Discussion in 'Mods' started by 414a4c, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. ThatNorthernMonkey

    ThatNorthernMonkey Aquatic Astronaut

    Unfortunately it isn't as easy as that. I mean it would make a difference, but I've just searched the code for places the IsMale field is used, and there's a lot of hard-coded dialogue too. E.g.,

    There's no way of editing all of these out without decompiling the code, editing the code itself and recompiling it. You'd have to do it every SV update too.

    Here's a list of all the places IsMale is used (and ofc if IsMale is false, you're a female).

      bulbaswat, 414a4c and Jinxiewinxie like this.
    • Slug

      Slug Scruffy Nerf-Herder

      No please do not make this mod
      • SleepySquidd

        SleepySquidd Tragically Magic Hands

        If you don't want it then don't comment on this thread. If you look at my past warnings in here then you know I'll give out warnings for harassment/being a jerk about this.
        • Slug

          Slug Scruffy Nerf-Herder

          Considering it's neither I'm not sure why the message? My English isn't great but I'm certain i didn't insult anyone?
          • dimasep0

            dimasep0 Subatomic Cosmonaut

            Your post insulted non-binary people because it means that you don't think that they should not exist (just like the fact you don't want this mod to exist).

            Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please refrain commenting negatively.
              RoastedCoconutz likes this.
            • Slug

              Slug Scruffy Nerf-Herder

              I mean you wanna be a robot?? why even have marriage if you aren't a human?
              • SleepySquidd

                SleepySquidd Tragically Magic Hands

                Being non-binary doesn't mean you're a robot. Two genders is a very western concept that was spread throughout the world. It could mean being agender, feeling you aren't either, both, one on some days and one on the others, etc.

                Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean its ok to tell people not to make it
                • endermaryn

                  endermaryn Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                  Oh! I see the issue here. No, you don't mean to be insulting. You've just never heard the term before and did not realize why some people would want this to be a mod. A mod like this would include a non-binary option, or neutral option, upon character creation, not get rid of the male/female option.

                  Non-binary means not using what is generally considered to be a socially accepted gender pronoun such as her, she, him, he. Versus sex which is more biological but sometimes also not as clear. The two (gender and sex) are often used interchangeably when they shouldn't be. "Gender is cultural and is the term to use when referring to women and men as social groups. Sex is biological; use it when the biological distinction is predominant." Non-binary is used to refer to individuals that do not wish to be labeled with a sexual gender pronoun. Or when they do not want to be forced into "socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women."

                  I hope this clarifies things :)

                  These definitions can be found here.

                  My advice is to move your request to the Suggestions section. Why I believe so took me over four hours to write and ended up being three pages long in Word so I don’t want to not use it. And I probably should not have posted it anyway, but I needed the points laid out to help others see why this should go to the Suggestions section to become a part of the main game and not just a mod.

                  Too Long, Didn’t Read:

                  The definition of Gender vs. Sex

                  Why this mod request should be in the Suggestions section as having the option be a part of the base game would go a long way to including a large number or trans and non-binary players. After all, the game is incredibly popular.

                  Why simply pretending to be a character with a more socially accepted gender or sex when there is no true representation, gets old fast. And ultimately, making a non-binary option with neutral gender dialogue would not be hard.

                  The number of games that are anti-LGBT or transphobic.

                  The number of games that provide non-binary player options.

                  The Thick of It:

                  I am not going to reply directly to the statements below, but I gathered all the ones that have already come up in this thread. A lot of these comments come from hate or ignorance. There are several articles on the issue of non-representation of non-binary, transgendered people. This is not a minor problem. A person does not have to take a class to learn more about it. And even a class would not provide a complete oversight on the issue. All one has to do is look online to get information on the issue and open their mind a bit to realize that they themselves may not have to worry about this problem, but there are several others out there that do.

                  Simply Goggling the topic “Sex vs. Gender” brings up this definition: "Sexrefers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women. Genderrefers to the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women." And further: "Gender is cultural and is the term to use when referring to women and men as social groups.Sex is biological; use it when the biological distinction is predominant."

                  These definitions come from the first paragraph of the article Sex Difference vs. Gender Difference? Oh, I’m So Confused! It is a great article and worth reading. However, it can be a little difficult to understand if the reader does not have some additional background information that an Anthropology or Biology class, for example, could provide. Particularly when it comes to the phrases, “psychological adaptations,” “nature vs. nurture,” “sexually dimorphic” and “sexually monomorphic.”

                  And Goggling “non-binary gender in video games” brings up several articles on how non-binary people are not generally represented in the games they play or in other media and everyday life. Future, often, if there is a game that has a transgendered individual, that character is a villain or the gender they prefer to go by is completely disregarded.

                  The YouTuube video, Game Theory: Are Video Games Anti-LGBT shows how many games depict trans people as villains, insane, aliens, monsters, or all of these at once. The video shows just a fraction of the games out there that are tranphobic or brush the issue aside. Even Rune Factory 4 is guilty as it allows the player to choose a different sex upon beating the main story line but the villagers still refer to the character by their original sex making their preferred gender irrelevant.

                  I’m going to use the following articles to respond to the comments below:

                  Games with transgender and nonbinary protagonist/options

                  Video Games Are Utterly Failing Trans Gamers & It’s Time We Did Something About It

                  Pick Your Poison: Character Creation & The Gender Binary

                  They are great articles. Before posting, I encourage any possible trolls to educate themselves first before they smear their ignorance all over a thread that should be the Suggestions section of this forum.

                  “There's probably no such mod because no such gender exists.”

                  “I personally believe there are only two,…”

                  “…but... there are only two genders.”

                  For the above three statements, read the definition and/or article they came from and think about the topic some more. Like, for example, how gender and sex should not be used interchangeably.

                  “Your character doesn't have to be you.”

                  No, the character does not. However, many of us, at least once, have projected themselves into the games we play. We cannot help it. For many people, games are a way in which we can forget about our real lives for a while. And for games such as Stardew Valley, where relationships are such an integrated part of the game, projecting ourselves into our characters is more likely to happen. Or as the ‘Video Games’ article had to say about this point: “For nonbinary gamers, the transphobic hostility often starts at the door. When a character creation screen asks their gender and only provides them a choice between “man” or “woman,” nonbinary players are abruptly faced with a complete and total erasure of their identity.”

                  The article ‘Pick Your’ has more to say on this such as: “…to suddenly hear a ‘woman’ or ‘mistress’ being flung at me out of the blue. Even if I am playing as a girl and forgetting about trying to be me, this still hits a little close to home.” And this statement is especially good: “Of course, not all OCs are meant to represent the player themselves… But it’s a bummer to never even have theoption of seeing yourself represented canonically. So this is where headcanons come in… But as LGBTQIA+ people spend so much of our time headcanoning characters as queer and so little of our time getting official representation, that gets real old real fast.”

                  “And CA shouldn't be catering to the 0.0001% of players who can't decide which gender they are.”

                  Why not? As seen in the article ‘Video Games’, there were at least 3,600 trans gamers that responded to the survey, “Gendering Your Avatar: How to Make Video Games More Trans-Friendly,” in just five days after it was sent out. And those were just the ones that noticed the survey. A number of at least 3,600, a mere ‘fraction of the full number of trans gamers out there’, shows that there are a lot of gamers that are not “catered to.” And as the list ‘Games with’ shows, there are not many games that the author knew of that have non-binary options. A lot of them are free or are indie games. I do not recognize any of them as being made by big name companies. A game such as Stardew Valley, which is already incredibly popular, including the option at character creation would go a long way to providing more awareness on the issue and would include a player bass that is growing all the time.

                  “No please do not make this mod.” (This was actually not written out of hate this time but I am still including it for all those thinking of posting the exact same thing, only out of hate instead of confusion.)

                  No one is forcing anyone to download any mod that they do not want to use. Don’t like it, don’t use it. Simple as that. But do not tell others they should occlude providing a means for others to get more enjoyment out of the game. But you are right in that it really should not be a mod. It should be a part of the base game.

                  To the OP’s request to “make a third, gender neutral option in the character creation menu”, I’d like to direct them to a section in the article ‘Video Games’ on how “…developers could increase trans visibility and representation in games,…”. Asking for things such as: “Actually create trans characters that aren’t jokes or fetishes.”, “Leave cissexist and transphobic slurs out of games.” or “Have community rules against trans discrimination.” is “a testament to how incredibly bad the situation is when the things trans gamers are asking for sound like the bare minimum.” And asking for a mod to include this option is “incredibly modest” and also asking for the “bare minimum.”

                  Having a neutral gender option at character creation should be a part of the base game. And as ‘Pick Your’ points out, including it as a part of the main game would not be difficult to do. It will include more gamers in an industry that does not often represent them and it would not interfere with players that chose male of female for themselves. Especially if the pronouns ‘they’, ‘their’ and ‘them’ were only used in reference to the neutral gendered character. If pronouns are even used at all. There are even several great looking gender neutral icons that can be added to the character creation screen such as this one or this one.

                  Just because many people do not see this as a problem, as they do not have to put up with it themselves or worry about feeling scared in social media or in their everyday lives, as ‘Video Games’ carefully highlights, does not mean that the problem is not there and should not be addressed.

                  As stated in 'Video Games', "...according to a report last year by the International Game Developers Association, trans and agender people make up at least 2% of game devs." and CA himself is definitely not. If he were to go about adding this option to his game, he may want to consider getting advice from transgender people to make sure the pronouns, or lack of pronouns, are done well.

                  So do not be modest or shy in regards to your request. Post this in the Suggestions section. Make your point very strong. Back up those points with references. And maybe CA will notice it and make what many would see as a small change (the icon after all would be the only notable difference on the character creation screen) but would make a big difference to a lot of other people.
                    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2016
                  • AfrokingJ

                    AfrokingJ Big Damn Hero

                    So you want to be Pat from saturday night live? Color me confused. Don't even hermaphrodites who have both set of genitals identify one way or the other?
                    • ThatNorthernMonkey

                      ThatNorthernMonkey Aquatic Astronaut

                      it'd be great if we could ignore the trolls and keep this on track - modding help :) I haven't actually tried decompiling -> recompiling the game yet, though a few people have done it in #stardewvalley-mods, so i could definitely get some assistance if needed. The list of methods using IsMale looks quite long, but there isn't much substance to it's usage as far as I can see. If one of you could use XNB node to extract the content and edit the dialogue, i could have a look (and see how long it takes) to go through the methods and change things to your liking. Removing the options from the character select screen shouldn't be too difficult, just auto-assign a gender under the hood and alter the hard coded dialogue. I can't imagine many usages of the farmers gender outside of dialogue options. If it takes ~30 mins to go through and edit hard-coded dialogue that's something I'd be prepared to do every update. The easy (but tedious job) is editing all of the quests, dialogue, mailbox messages etc in the xnb files. That's definitely something you guys could collectively do and split up between you into manageable chunks :)
                      • Slug

                        Slug Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                        Ohhh, my english isn't that great so I really couldn't comprehend it so well. I get it kinda from at least a literal standpoint
                          CedarGlade and endermaryn like this.
                        • Ghostly Fox

                          Ghostly Fox Giant Laser Beams

                          Hermaphrodite is a very outdated term and is actually very insulting to a larger portion of people who are intersex to one degree or another. It isn't even used by most medical professionals anymore because it has implications that are incorrect and tends to present a very specific type of intersex state. That said, while some people who fall on the intersex spectrum do identify as male or female (and their gender doesn't always match the sex they were assigned and usually surgically altered to look like, without their permission) there are also some who identify as both or neither.

                          Back on the topic, I don't really understand how xnb editing works for dialogue, or I'd probably be trying to work this out myself just to give people the option, though I can't really see a way to work with the ifmale thing, since my coding lessons were in a different language.
                          • AfrokingJ

                            AfrokingJ Big Damn Hero

                            Nope doesn't fly. First I haven't heard an LGBTQ friendly way of saying has both sets of genitals. Hermaphrodite is the scientific term used in animal classifications as well. So there's that. Secondly if you were born a male and identify as female you can be called female even if you haven't gotten surgery. You can be male or female regardless of what your biology says. But unless you are like the Angels from dogma with no genitals at all which means you also don't piss. You don't get your own neither gender. Unless you prefer to be called "It" and "Thing" and really noone wants to do that. It's insulting. You can identify as a fox person, or different sex then what you were born as, or any number of things but eventually you've gotta have a pronoun he or she not thee.
                            • SleepySquidd

                              SleepySquidd Tragically Magic Hands

                              Just because 'hermaphrodite' may be a scientific term doesn't mean it's not insulting. I guarantee you most intersex people you encounter extremely dislike that word, especially if you use it to describe them.

                              Second, there are a lot of agender people out there. The pronouns 'they, them, themself' are acceptable, have been used for single people for years, and are now officially recognized as well. Please don't try to argue with other users about things like this, there really isn't a reason to in the first place besides saying "You're wrong."
                              • Ghostly Fox

                                Ghostly Fox Giant Laser Beams

                                What FlyingAnonymoose said. Also, it's already been said for people to stop invalidating peoples' gender identities for the sake of invalidating peoples' identies- so maybe stop doing that.
                                • zyymurgy

                                  zyymurgy Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                  You're doing god's work, my friend.
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                                  • ThatNorthernMonkey

                                    ThatNorthernMonkey Aquatic Astronaut

                                    I have it decompiled, recompiled and working. Had to fix a fair number of errors!

                                    How do you want to handle IsGaySpouse()?

                                    How do you want to set this:

                                    string[] array8 = new string[]
                                    string[] array9 = new string[]

                                    There's a lot of renderer stuff I don't really want to mess about with at this point. Not sure exactly what it does. Looks like its mainly to do with offsetting hair and the like.

                                    I've attached what I have so far below, it includes:

                                    The edited "Stardew Valley.exe" - rename your existing "Stardew Valley.exe" as a backup, and run the game using this edited one.

                                    I've changed all of the hard-coded dialogue and removed the gender option from character creation screen. I haven't tested it very much, so you'll need to let me know if there any bugs / crashes - but with what I've changed (mainly just text) - there shouldn't be.

                                    keytens "GenderNeutrality.ZIP" (hope he doesn't mind!) which allows you to enter any changing room.

                                    All of the unpacked dialogue / quests and things you guys need to organize between yourself to edit (Notepad will do, but would recommend the free Notepad++).

                                    If you don't want to repack the files and release the mod yourselves, you can zip up and send me the edited files and i'll do it for you.

                                    Please note: Some GoG stuff had to be edited out to recompile this, so it may not work with the GoG version. Not entirely sure tbh.

                                    Full credit to Merth from #stardewvalley-mods for talking me through fixing the decompilation errors so it would recompile :)

                                      Attached Files:

                                      Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
                                    • ClxS

                                      ClxS Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                      Hey Northern, could you put a list of all the functions you needed to edit? I'll make sure those functions are included in the first set of functions in the new API so that it can be done as a standalone mod eventually. :)
                                        414a4c and ThatNorthernMonkey like this.
                                      • ThatNorthernMonkey

                                        ThatNorthernMonkey Aquatic Astronaut

                                        There were about 75, I straight up removed about 20 references to IsMale and replaced it with neutral text, the others I edited in situ. It was mainly changing code inside methods, how do you propose you include a way to access this in the API? :) I'll go through the unedited solution and copy the method names anyway :p
                                        • ClxS

                                          ClxS Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                          I want to add a "GlobalRouteManager" callback, which will be injected into the Entry of every single function in the game. This'll let you cancel any function I might not have provided an easy way to change yet, so it'd just be a case of cancelling the method you want to overwrite then add your own code.

                                          There's a few difficulties I'd need to work out like getting it to return values properly - so a list of stuff you'd want me to make sure works fine would be good. :p

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