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There's no Desire to Explore

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by Giraffasaur, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    I didn't know it till I got a hold of an old Koala version and looked through its assets. (Ive had the game since 2013, so don't castrate me on pirating) It was a crude division of the planets based on temperature, but it was there.

    Id like to return that system via one of my mods, but it is a lot of work to actually do and balance.
  2. Tamorr

    Tamorr Supernova

    Actually the way lazer put it above me sounded like " every sector had all planet types" which means all biome types; which is simply not true. So I was just clarifying it a bit. In other words just because the last tiers/sector had all biomes/planet types does not mean the former ones had them.

    Main reason I wanted to clarify. As that is almost misinformation. So yes, you specifically are correct for sure. Probably should have quoted whom I was indirectly replying to. ><

    I mainly stayed in the gamma or prior in that version, as the X sector was just meh. Since at the time it was mentioned thing of that sector would change, so I didn't see any reason to advance to that specific sector. I am a builder and the planets I enjoyed most were in prior sectors and well... Were easier to manage with what I had. I pretty much stayed at I think it was tier 4 or 5 back then. So I focused on the planets I enjoyed building on and as early sector I could with those planet types. Which was Delta I believe.

    Anyway, I don't really see much difference between that system and this new one. This includes the planned last tier. The major differences are the biome mixing and progressively gaining a new biome among the mix. Now it is more spread out and biomes are defined tier rank. At least with what there is at the moment. The planned is another matter entirely.

    Granted there was more biome diversity in the sense of mix n match back then, but the terrain itself... Pretty much remains the same diversity. Also now the biomes look more lively, and not as I guess barren would be the term. There is more to each biome, even if quite a bit of it is aesthetics. Which in turn I believe gives the atmosphere a better look for biomes that have been dolled up per say. :nuruhappy:
  3. LilyV3

    LilyV3 Master Astronaut

    well once SB is released people will mod whatever chucklefish should have added but didn't include. but until then its just watching and hoping it comes. But as long as builds change so often moddign your agme is a pain with keeping mos up and working

    The difference is the monotony, want high tier weapons ? Run around on the same 3 kind fo planets until you don't want to see stupid lavaponds and black blocks anymore. Everything went totally repetitive. In the old build I could just choose another high tier biome when I got tired of volcano planets and still find my proper weapons there. Now I have to stick to the same kind of planets.

    the old SB allowed me to reach my goals on any visual planet I wanted and planets had more visual diversity even within the same biome. Now my goals are more vound to the same biomes meaning I have to go through the same repteitive and boring stuff over and over until its reached. That is boring and not motivating much when you think: hey today another 4 hours running over volcanic planets and dead planets and magma planets, whoohoooo so much, . . oh cool lets play <enter other game of my steam library>
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  4. WingedSpear

    WingedSpear Big Damn Hero

    Ya, but the issue with that is, the Casual players, they like to play just building and being peaceful, while still having monsters around, i remember having many topics during Koala where the Casual players complained about not being able to kill anything and was litteraly impossible for them advance, while the rest of us loved it and didnt mind the difficulty because it actually made the game fun.

    I am guessing those Casual players never played old school plataform games like all those Metroidvanias (no, mario dont count as one because is very easy..), the problem with that is, Starbound IS a Metroidvania with building system, so they shouldnt complain about the difficulty, the game become fun once you accept it and try to learn, also with this new Mobs and Combat system will be even better.

    And no i am not into modding, i dont like mods in any of my games, why? because i am used to start comunitys and start working in a stable server with a big amount of players, and the players dont usually like to download mods in order to play, if they see a mod requirement, they pass the page and go to another server. That and because the mods usually generate bugs and server issues, plus the compatibility with the game updates since the mod makers can leave the mod to die.
    jakecool19 likes this.
  5. LilyV3

    LilyV3 Master Astronaut

    yeah but casual players could have their place, just not on the high tier planets, now the planets are still high tier, yet we who liked high tier graslandsdon't even ahve anything, its nto like we got better variety, we just have less now.

    and with those supercheap turrets there was never a need to fight mobs alone, even the most unskilled player could have placed those turrets and start building in peace.
  6. The MechE

    The MechE Existential Complex

    I really like the idea of having different zones in a single star. Stars can determine difficulty like they do now, but it'll give you a variety of planets.
    jakecool19 likes this.
  7. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    I agree that I'd like to see difficulty and ore types disassociated from planet types, with more dangerous planets basically "replacing" less dangerous ones. I like to build cities, and I favor using temperate biomes to do so, but colonies on forest, jungle, and meadow planets give less return than ones on volcanic worlds, even though I certainly don't want to live on a volcanic world. Granted, I tend to play with creative mode anyway, but still, if I feel the inclination to play "normally" (the way the game is designed to be played), I'd like it to have every planet be viable for something.
    Giraffasaur and jakecool19 like this.
  8. Tamorr

    Tamorr Supernova

    ... Those have not been dolled up, at least in the version I played. Guess you are one that is more for the equipment then?

    I actually like the changes, granted they are different from what koala was, but more signaturized if that could be a word. As in the biomes actually have a sense of being, instead of what it was in koala where it was mainly just a few minor changes between each biome type. I am only talking about the ones that have been dolled up, spruced up, or what ever one wants to call it. In koala everything was randomized so technically there was no actually meaning to each biome. They were just there in the mix n match. Sure I like that too, just as much as this new way. So basically it was in someone else's words all the same due to its' randomness; just as the randomness is lacking in the current one.

    And like I said I include the last tier that has yet to be in the game that they have planned, which is kind of what you might be looking for. the volcano stars are not the last tier. It is just the current that is implemented.

    I am one to be mindful of each change that I see between Koala and the current Giraffe versions. I like what it is now and what it was then. I of course enjoyed the game like it was a different game. Which Koala pretty much was. I like the fact there is more to progression, and the biomes sort of joined in, even if it wasn't noticeable that is was in then as well. Just different to a degree, and pretty much the same.

    High tier equipment on high tier planets... meh. I am one to visit and building and explore, as I mentioned. Regardless each of the 2 versions were just different and played a bit differently. I never once went into the sector X because I thought it as kind of silly. When several tiers are in that sector that makes the game less progression. I was then awaiting for changes that they were going to do; which was having quite a few sectors. Then plans changed. Actually I just didn't see the catch 22 or point of the X sector, but it is the way I think. Not really in it for the grind; although don't mind that part, just in it for the adventure my mind creates and lays out.

    I don't expect many to read all of this as quite a bit of it runs into one another and is roughly how I see things. To me things are pretty much the same as before, just skewed in a different way for each. Seems like the only thing really that changed is planet biome spread. Spread as in number across the universe. I am one to visit prior tiers, just because I will still find something good that I like; especially since the armor for the most part boosts damage...

    @WingedSpear Not sure what you have in mind for casual then. I am one of "casual". I put it that was because the root of the term mainly just means on occasion or occasionally. Basically every so often. Not all casual players want a creative mode with mobs around. Or light mode with mobs around. Sure I want to build a universe, but I must find a starting location. Adventure is what I seek more often than not. And that term can be quite different form person to person, especially for myself. Adventure does include building because trial and error.

    Also quite a few of those people probably have played some of those games and probably were turned off by the difficulty then and went to something else, but not all. I have learned from the many games, to look at each for what it is; and not what it can be compared to. Mega Man 1-8 was pretty difficult. The only one I had not beaten was I think 7. Yes even mario is decent, since you still have to avoid enemies or be killed. Now the mario games now a days... things are more easier... simplified more or less. Do I yearn for the difficulty of back then? no. Did I enjoy quite a few games that had that difficulty? yes. Battletoads, even though never beat it I enjoyed that in comparison to ninja gaiden which I didn't enjoy, but it wasn't the difficulty that not made me enjoy. It was the mechanics in the game. If one can not do the simple mechanics the game has to offer, it becomes less enjoyable.

    However on that same note one could learn yes, but not always succeed. I personally new the mechanics of ninja gaiden, but for the life of me could not accomplish them over the 100 attempts at the "1st" level. Now a days they made that type of game easier. "Assassin's Creed". Where they made that mechanic flow with the controller and environment. More fluidity in movement.

    I have played a few of the castlevania series, but just simply didn't enjoy the theme. Ghost and goblins I liked even better. Metroid was ok. Not ever beat any in the series, but at least was enjoyable for what it is. I probably could go on about this and probably shouldn't, but I just wanted to mention that not all "Casuals" are what they appear to be. Sometimes people label that with a bad thing or sometimes are just disgusted with someone they thing the term coins. Regardless it is as simple as "One who plays games every so often just to relax or entertain themself with" At least in reference to game industry. Is how I think. I'll shut up now for the moment, just wanted to point that bit out.

    "Everyone is different, even within the labels they so choose to don themself with." :nuruhappy:
    Alsanu likes this.
  9. The MechE

    The MechE Existential Complex

    I think it's bad design to wait until end game to give the player all the tiers. Players are going to want variety through the WHOLE game not just the end.
  10. Tamorr

    Tamorr Supernova

    Bad is subjective... I think. For me though, I am 50-50. I would have prefered them doing a progressive biome mix similar to what they did initially rather than this yes. But on the same note at least they have done a great job on the places that were touched up, plus adding here and there.

    In a way it is good for those that run through the tiers, because they would end up in a variety universe in the end still wandering around.

    It is only bad if you didn't like the journey or see much of it. Not many stay at prior tiers as is. At least if I am reading the forums right. That is steam and here.

    Maybe not be the best journey to the end, but I see more like;
    "Make the best of what there is"
    and have always kept that in mind no matter how good or bad something is.

    So for me the journey will be good either way and that last tier would be more like a goal to achieve getting so I can wander around and find that planet I am looking for. Some will see it the same way, and some will not. Each to their own. :nuruneutral:
    jakecool19 likes this.
  11. Lazer

    Lazer Existential Complex

    Actually, it's bad design to make a sandbox game have a huge list of rote chores and 100% predictable path that must be completed before being free to explore.
  12. Tamorr

    Tamorr Supernova

    Can you list an RPG, or story driven game that isn't this way. Probably can, but also sometimes makes for a poor story.

    I'll say it again, bad is subjective, and more likely just an opinion of interest conflict.

    Plus this game is not "ONLY" a sandbox. If it were, then maybe you might be correct or close to it. It is after all going to have quite a bit of RPG elements throughout; I mean otherwise the upcoming story would mean nothing otherwise. Progression is a touchy subject for some, but it seems not everyone grasps, that each game is their own individual; which means it has to make its' own, not completely follow to a T certain things that a genre or type of game defines. IF that were the case we would have several different "Garry's Mod" out there just all with different graphics. Bad example, but there would not be much variety within a genre.

    So on an end note it is actually a mix of several different types of genres, and not just one. Mainly with the idea to be having similar functions with their own designs in mind. Metroidvania games always have a sense of progression with walls of some kind, but still keeping the flow. In a way it is the way they wanted the flow to be. After all many are more worried about end game rather than the what leads up to end game; since quite a few seem to have a knack of breezing through to end game. I don't know exactly what the final product will look like, but I could imagine that the journey will be rough at first and get to point where it will be moderate in the end. At least where challenge is. Each approaches challenge in a different way, and some dissuade it or shrug it off as a nuisance or tedium.
    Gilligan Lanley likes this.
  13. Lazer

    Lazer Existential Complex

    You haven't convinced me that leading each and every character through the exact same sequence of planets for 90% of the game is at all necessary or in any way good.
  14. Tamorr

    Tamorr Supernova

    Not trying to. But was the same thing in quite a few older games. So meh. either way, like I said each with their own perspective on things; that was just mine. :nuruhappy:
    Gilligan Lanley likes this.
  15. quakeman00

    quakeman00 Pangalactic Porcupine

    Tiers are fun but having a late game that goes beyond max tier that you cant cap and more planets higer tier than lower tier would make the max tier more relevant , the others are just for natural progression and learning the game then once you hit the max tier , you just go from there to play the actual game trough the biggest portion of the game adapted to this tier.

    doesn't need to be mega brutal lava ninja dinosaurs ... can just but for example.

    max tier peaceful : animals deal low dmg but are tanky
    max tier regular : aggressive npc with weapons and hidden treasures that are really rare to find making the need to explore and loot a constant thing
    max tier END GAME : planets that go 2 level beyond your current armor but nothing better can be done for challenges and a feel that here is still something beyond and challenging to do.

    as long as there is something beyond your equipment and very rare and scattered treasures to find then the game will last for ever (this was the downfall terraria. once you get god tier ... nothing fucking left to do in the game)
  16. Gilligan Lanley

    Gilligan Lanley Space Kumquat

    You build and build and build... and build. Which on that note confuses me. Some people complain that there isn't much to do, but if you look at Minecraft: It's in the EXACT same boat. End game is rather lack luster, yet people spend countless hours in game... building. Why do people "do more exploring" in Minecraft than Starbound? In Minecraft you explore the world in hopes of finding dungeons and the chance for those rare CDs and the like: Vanity items. In Starbound you trek planets that are either at your level or lower for the same reason: Vanity items/sets.

    Another thing to keep in mind when wondering why there's not much to do in the end game: the game is still incomplete. The game has had lots of additions since it's inception; I've even avoided buying it up until the first major content update 'cause of the "lack of content." I can still spend hours many hours in-game thanks to the modding community. And just like in both Minecraft and Terraria, Starbound's content is limited to what you want out of the game in it's current state.

    There's still plenty to do at the end game if you're willing to give new things a try. You could trying Role-playing your character and/or join a multiplayer server and play with others. Friends can make the most boring of games fun. Mods are another way to increase your playtime, or even try your hand at modding the game into your preferred experience if you have the know-how.

    But what it boils down is what I said earlier: The game's content is limited to what you want out of the game in it's current state. If it's not tickling your fancy, you always give Starbound a break and come back when they add more content.

    EDIT: I not good English well when I'm tired. T.T
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    Tamorr and jakecool19 like this.
  17. Oberic

    Oberic Spaceman Spiff

    I'm honestly not sure what people even want out of Starbound. For me, I was initially hooked by the concept of capturing and raising randomly generated monsters, in a sci-fi setting (so lots of lazorz and such).
    That alone is beautiful.

    Then there's colonies, vanity clothing collecting, furniture 3D printer collecting, (finally after so long) there's rare guns and stuff to collect.. There's a lot to collect. That's like, what I enjoy.

    Mods take it to a whole new level. If you're bored, go get Frackin' Universe.

    I just wish Samus/Metroid style arm cannons (normal shot, charge shot, alt-fire missles) were in Starbound's random generation.
    I had mine working (minus the missle alt firing) but the latest patch killed that.
    M_Sipher, Tamorr and Gilligan Lanley like this.
  18. Lazer

    Lazer Existential Complex

    I want out of Starbound: for a planet to not be a clone of the next planet in the same system.
  19. Zzymotic

    Zzymotic Seal Broken

    Currently, I'm hopping from system-to-system trying to gather the best randomly generated weapons I can find. This process alone has revealed that planets are almost cookie-cutter in nature.

    The crafting in this game is impressive so far as variety in materials, but the ability for players to mod/customize items is lacking. Minecraft solved this by providing enchantments, which brought several levels of game-play into the fold. Sure you can go out and grab some swanky mods, but this kind of deep content should be in the game anyway.

    I'm under the impression that the breadth and depth of this game will only continue to get more comprehensive as development unfolds. Of course, this is what I'm looking for:
    • Armor, weapon, equipment customization
      • Appearance and stat modulation
    • Tech diversification (comming soon)
      • Greater variety of techs
      • Ability to modulate power/range/speed of techs i.e. lots of short dashes vs one large dash you can only preform so often
    • Technological expansion
      • Pets/capture system (coming soon)
      • Mechs and other combat vehicles (XS Corporation Mechs)
      • Space-battles?!?
      • Basic NPC interaction and followers (landing party?)
    Gilligan Lanley likes this.
  20. Analogjacket

    Analogjacket Aquatic Astronaut

    This seems more like a discussion having to do with mechanics rather than a General Discussion but if such things can go within this area I might as well repost some of my own threads. Either way I think you (and a lot of the other commenters) bring up an interesting point which is while Koala was less diverse it was..more fun (as far as in the realm of exploration). I personally remember exploring some really cool planets and dungeons that I definitely had no right being, throwing down a crap-ton of turrets and spamming health to survive, but man was it fun. The problem with SB as of now isn't tiers. Koala had tiers (though a bit less obviously defined). No the problem with current SB is the fact that it has tiers followed by restrictions. Yeah, x ore is better than y ore but you can only get x ore if you make a suit out of y ore to get d piece of tech to replace c piece of tech and by the time you finish you're gonna need z ore to progress any further so throw away everything that's not made of x. It gets old real fast. I honestly which, instead of just scraping tiers entirely I rather have to opportunity to make my gear better and bring it with me. I hate to self advertise but i'd like to link myself here because I neither have the time or desire to re-go over all the points I made as eloquently as I did there: http://community.playstarbound.com/threads/foresight-is-20-20.103202/

    I honestly find it interesting because a few of the things I talked about found their way into the latest update (such as vehicles being separate from tech). That's not to say that I think my post influenced much , it only has a few views, but rather the devs are already working in that direction.
    jakecool19 likes this.

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